From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-2.mimecast.com [205.139.110.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 643293B29D for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 12:59:23 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1576519163; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=sEuZpBqlUMppN0hoFV8nS0OQZ+VKn/Bm1bqDrzJSLYw=; b=GZqkISuG3/RITmKKm7aWQPw7Dp1jdVNjEWXoRVd1EMdZBEQhUx0Jh5wc/PGAjmB2rtNYqa LFMj9FssVEh9D4I+jtVh2P0AE1SkYoShc1t1nwPrLu/LMm6C2z8TiT3+8Q05GCanb0KSZD pvRdipxxggCCNlHxtyVmbCaLq0+3Ux0= Received: from mail-lf1-f71.google.com (mail-lf1-f71.google.com [209.85.167.71]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-350-5N-A1VKyNZqtG2-43K2aLQ-1; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 12:59:20 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-f71.google.com with SMTP id y4so672032lfg.1 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:59:20 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Le2zYMnEDJiIJYjIZkOb182lZf/SLo3nqJgcR1SnVk8=; b=PKlein5SjgLXqk/x4UiDTwPYXo7tImvC1KTRBbcyknb3+CiIPaSKOt8D7RUm5g8vk4 UkbawqV32O5xaJX7NNEDJlRaR1yt+/wxljAeIV50k01Xxu09rAArIFL1eE2ylvIo78y7 IcfVcmxTbwjAlVSJGeyVsGE9F39lRHJ7x2O1onzY6QQV20D7GTDhMWdloPh2dzXmz1j4 P74r58tA//Z35aY2Z3TVtteVeaHELFPz6zl5ah5KVK9zV82Lw0FUvAKuyhw5rMXKlIsF 0kRkT2qxJAjnHaMGRD1EMGdvZMF2Es0sMJF6VyI47xjnG00r3u4EfscxyAfjMigj0xG1 gStg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXVJwxtR8iw1U4Z/EQ0NV8bc9NNjjkO00LcbmlaPVIsJXsvjoRI gK9I76fTUpJwC5kfpVGCQibqCE1rJCIX0BKY6vMBhCuu8RiGb2GQ7cbip2z/OAVVTym3KMeS8Hz 1uw7/LesUdEC88XIiD8xYL7TCEsbwET9bTHk= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:580c:: with SMTP id m12mr272427ljb.150.1576519158901; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:59:18 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxwJlWCIg2LaRbw35qEGiiqxgoPKPpoXNpHdSOINQFtZYTq19mUYszYSyG5BFtxCHrCkPm6sA== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:580c:: with SMTP id m12mr272409ljb.150.1576519158571; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:59:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from alrua-x1.borgediget.toke.dk ([45.145.92.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l1sm7645609lfj.71.2019.12.16.09.59.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:59:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by alrua-x1.borgediget.toke.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C2FD180960; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 18:59:17 +0100 (CET) From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Tim Higgins , make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: <2844d909-e0f3-da85-2647-a3df88721791@smallnetbuilder.com> References: <2844d909-e0f3-da85-2647-a3df88721791@smallnetbuilder.com> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 18:59:17 +0100 Message-ID: <87pngo883u.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MC-Unique: 5N-A1VKyNZqtG2-43K2aLQ-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] AX latency testing X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:59:23 -0000 Tim Higgins writes: > Hi all, > > Dave T=C3=A4ht suggested that I post the discussion we've started to this= broader > group. > > I've been spending the past few months trying to develop methods to verif= y one > of the key promises of OFDMA; improved efficiency. > The tests have mostly focused on trying to see improvement in total throu= ghput > using various traffic mixes using four OFDMA STAs. > > I've been using Samsung S10e's as STAs and primarily iperf3 TCP/IP and UD= P > traffic. I did some work with the Intel AX200 as a STA using both Window= s 10 > and Linux for RvR testing and found the Linux driver basically broken for > uplink. (See the Win10/Linux comparison in the RAX40 section of > https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/33220-wi-fi-6-p= erformance-roundup-five-routers-tested?start=3D1 FWIW, Johannes was debugging some TCP issues on Intel 802.11ax the other day, and was getting ~1.4Gbps of throughput: https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/90485ecbfa2a13c4438b840c8a9d37677e83= 3ea5.camel@sipsolutions.net/T/ So I guess maybe there are improvements coming in that space? > So, for now, I'm limited to using the Samsung S10 as STAs.=20 > > ANYWAY, I haven't been having much luck finding total throughput gains, s= o > thought I'd bang my head against a different wall for awhile, which bring= s me > to latency.=20 > > My initial work was pretty simple, just running pings to four OFDMA STAs = with > OFDMA on/off on the AP, which showed no improvement. That's once I realiz= ed > the large ping times and variation I was seeing initially was due to > aggressive power-save kicking in on the STAs with no traffic running. So = I > also tried various TCP rates starting at 1 Mbps per STA to keep the STA a= wake. > > Coincidentally, Dave reached out the other day and suggested I look at th= e > toolsets used for the make-wifi-fast project. =20 > > I've spent a few hours looking at the flent and rrul sites and I'm inter= ested > in exploring using the tools/techniques used for the make-wifi-fast work = to > date to see if AX adds anything to the latency improvement party. If any= one > is willing to provide some pointers on the proper use of the tools, I'd > appreciate it. I think the Flent batch file used to run the tests are part of the data file at the bottom of this page: https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/ The setup I was using had a server that ran the tests, which was one Ethernet hop from the AP. The clients were passive, run running 'netserver' so the server could run 'netperf' against each of them. This flips up/down in the tests but otherwise works fairly well. I used a separate (wired) control network for telling the clients to connect/disconnect... More details about the setup here: https://blog.tohojo.dk/2017/11/building-a-wireless-testbed-with-wires.html > For example, I didn't see mention of the bitrates used for the traffic st= reams > in the tests. Do I just tell each stream to run full blast (1 Gbps)? Well for TCP tests, yeah. The only UDP tests I did were flood tests, where I just had iperf blasting away at way above the link rate, then measured how many packets made it through. > Also, since most implementations of (consumer at least) OFDMA require mul= tiple > STAs to trigger OFDMA frames, I could use some help understanding whether > multiple streams should be applied per STA, or spread among the 4 STAs I'= m > using in my testing. Why not just try both and see what works? :) > Also (2), has anyone used Android STAs for make-wifi-fast testing? Nope. But if you can get netperf cross-compiled it should be simple enough to run 'netserver' on them, I would think? -Toke