From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB51C3B29E for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 09:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id w3so10901272ljo.5 for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 06:21:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=52GXqviDfECAFn7LrJploQ/50trw151OLsZsjucjMBw=; b=sb33oEKmIaqK9bvPCadyr+TmZygG/56ZOm/e1f0PXVuOCnS3PcUWAUcVmxU54R05X0 GG6DjpsY7cRCLMCPrOPiZbS8E8M8r0Cbc3vs+9vl579bho/9k5ZWe0hjcIXhBO9m3gft IbFisMSo3SRnbIIDhZXqMUMK9IHhMXo4M9Jq8jk67q5Yi3Wj5HD5l3MNtx5LKnEJgsYL AxNMNqQQB7Oect9Cm+KbvYFMEYcFzgt9XdcF8CZtuYvDU+AZOBtKtq9xMS8bcGIbwCz7 UfhhpuW8HKpmDrB3Abih+zOs3PjVtjaepTMTXSqwYjMsPb6x2VMKxTi08kZzeF9g6Yv9 DHsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=52GXqviDfECAFn7LrJploQ/50trw151OLsZsjucjMBw=; b=XC+X0ylHzegljLzQGkTJmrJksIxkA7vG9bRrBKDQYN4Y5hOSPM7iNMWXKjU91fJ/nF hosyvECYek7THsMctbnwAtsTMZzaRwr7wEDyC8T9UalccvEZaXY1gEWNvbDmx6HIMo2m xoSEbShNzBTQ6qEMpjjOkxNg6szyhuu1leKgMDSlV6RlNlHB2SR6Mj/7JT69E0w3SXwt p7FgQ0gUkRcHXCt3fJg2xSYwcreVVICp+6P0qJFYTusXqMkoL2ofY9enDL4tw/O1C4Oq YwOIaF49ayyV/RXnaMcyQ/TXnFqlcpf2T4Fq3FGuFW1EIDb4Qa1dMuY5Of2dqIjChqru QlNA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532QBFGC0/hbzTSNAo+PJCUlZHY6HygmcG4xUMAkJaDdNKgL2fCD /MsB/2K7R8OSh615iZuzUWw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzz11EwLBn62tsDTe5HnmW9QK7Dp7fIsovWl244qUeSnA2sFZx8n0lDs1vCjyb0Vnc1scV5dw== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8ec2:: with SMTP id e2mr1870736ljl.96.1601990491651; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 06:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (178-55-170-35.bb.dnainternet.fi. [178.55.170.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l9sm589835lfh.285.2020.10.06.06.21.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Oct 2020 06:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.6\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <87a6wzfrro.fsf@toke.dk> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 16:21:29 +0300 Cc: Michael Welzl , make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87d01vfue4.fsf@toke.dk> <87a6wzfrro.fsf@toke.dk> To: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.6) Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] Where is the bloat in WiFi? X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 13:21:33 -0000 > On 6 Oct, 2020, at 3:44 pm, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen via = Make-wifi-fast wrote: >=20 > The worst are definitely LTE/mobile broadband connections. Wildly > varying link speeds, and awful over-buffering; so you really have to > clamp them down to get anything useful out of CAKE. Out here in rural Finland, that's what I have to deal with. Meanwhile = the wifi bands are very quiet and I'm never far from the AP, so there is = plenty of throughput there. I'm sure there are cases with wired WAN and = noisier wifi airspace where the wifi could often be the bottleneck. The = balance will vary for different people at different times. But also you should consider the case of transferring files over wifi = to/from some other machine on the LAN. In that case the Internet = connection doesn't matter, and the wifi will always be the bottleneck. The lesson is that you need to address bloat everywhere in order to = cover all possible use cases. - Jonathan Morton