From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DD793BA8E for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 16:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id p10-v6so2144709ljg.2 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:17:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jTRfAdattt2hbpOkZxLzKRenuQYvuAMtezJ7ycggFpQ=; b=LqgQBNzQoHOvHhfbIcfQ21eAufGN3b4f1Yw7fz+ro7El++C+8MQs6CSfBtjwN0UlJW 4W2MtB2gLMH3lmPiJc6nJYkewEUwfsCDXtU4EtAKLsGrHYWwVVrs1uv54C19UVh9mPFs CwnFxT+MdLNn1wgy14r5R+E2BmxWDnD+KqYtjpd/dKQryOrpIQ0PnT9AsooMZuv6WZWX Xda57NRBHcOerqyaRJtT7Zk+CbCtNt1f9orUPV1LSs5Y37Atg7C3EOQck+wUHko4fyDY WJ7ZdVtJwHo6tXBaEysDpp+HklFo+I1YgNEO/OD9VYkoxBh6t6n+Fgelp8aGAZo40dj9 Y96A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jTRfAdattt2hbpOkZxLzKRenuQYvuAMtezJ7ycggFpQ=; b=tqBbMyKsuDnirYQgyEcO5zfHCS2fAfgEzHB7xU/6s33cDuj5/kS6YhXuW86qG7j+iU 5pcOPOVOjrXMjNQnG8BilNaxsTmptJrNDnafV7r7umC17NPeLzb/GxWfYGeEDlUO+VGE eN8POnLQNZCyA+ZpCl3Avg7RqYMtuFmP12M5tyQkEs8ybikskoUHZt0MblHkcNUgAglc FYWpu2K/n25Y+9Kbz96nD97de6LRvRBYrG+57yp126HG/n/sfW4lL/0F8fIKgS3soqf0 D+ZUUtpb3bfVSK6x6+NCkNXlI3+jLAHwfiEBvLAqlkmsR2p3xTx4ooNOFwyX8K34FBQX PxTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2We3tDv0db3er4BmHmuP1f/szftyNi67hUowMTolXaG6rU4Z3q Bi3Qvy+OE8QIeHBCezfN7Lc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfOHc46HuSIDTaB4o0Tva6mXLnEWMjj7bIRlGRhDmvD4Oo5ae8WAed3lPeGc9hCmveKXgR/ng== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:428e:: with SMTP id h14-v6mr4741175ljf.136.1530821846547; Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.239.101] (83-245-237-187-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.237.187]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n17-v6sm1062830ljb.82.2018.07.05.13.17.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <663D9F58-3202-42CD-9BD5-3B415E77EE97@heistp.net> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 23:17:24 +0300 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= , Make-Wifi-fast Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9E7E043B-2373-46ED-B122-38A287422999@eventide.io> <87d0wu7rbg.fsf@toke.dk> <8A44F1D4-1EB8-4D46-85F9-00C7307FF2D4@heistp.net> <2EC1279B-76C6-48C0-AED4-E9C4A7D0F004@heistp.net> <874lhdeso1.fsf@toke.dk> <87fu0xd1o9.fsf@toke.dk> <663D9F58-3202-42CD-9BD5-3B415E77EE97@heistp.net> To: Pete Heist X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] mesh deployment with ath9k driver changes X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 20:17:28 -0000 > On 5 Jul, 2018, at 9:02 pm, Pete Heist wrote: >=20 >> Wouldn't be surprised. Note that packets will be dropped from the >> longest queue, though, so unresponsive flows just hurt themselves... >=20 > Probably not before they=E2=80=99ve wasted airtime though and and = impacted everyone else... Would it be worth extending the principle of airtime fairness to the QoS = queues? Clearly traffic in the VO queue consumes airtime out of all = proportion to its actual volume, due to the prohibition on aggregation; = this provokes a similar argument to the impact of slow clients on faster = ones. I wouldn't worry too much about the links between leaf APs and their = clients. Those are probably relatively strong and fast, so BE traffic = can get through reasonably well in between the VO traffic. But the AP-to-AP links cover a significant distance and are that much = more susceptible to airtime congestion, which VO traffic exacerbates = considerably. These APs are also running open-source firmware where we = can actually tackle this problem. So there must be a case for = deprioritising VO if it's using more than some reasonable share of the = available airtime. Oh, and if I find out which BT client has selected a VO-category DSCP by = default... >:-( - Jonathan Morton