Re: [Make-wifi-fast] the hidden station problem

[Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>]

the original minstrel paper is well worth reading.

http://blog.cerowrt.org/post/minstrel/

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:57 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016, Dave Taht wrote:
>
>> I was watching myself do then make-wifi-fast Q&A and henning mentioned
>> the hidden station problem and it's interaction with minstrel...
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb-UnHDw02o
>>
>> Since we are doing up some better testbeds, I am curious as to what
>> might be a good (simplified) setup (bench or air) for it, and/or if
>> there has been a paper that shows the interaction problems with
>> minstrel in particular.
>
>
> the basic way to see this is to take two stations and move them far enough
> apart, or put shielding between them so that they cannot talk to each other.
>
> Then position a third station so that it can see both of the first two.
>
> If you really turn the power down, you may be able to get away with them
> fairly near each other with a metal sheet next to one of them.
>
> You will see that you can talk to either of them quite nicely if the other
> is pretty idle, but if you have them both sending a lot of data at the same
> time, disaster strikes.
>
>
>
> If you are writing a simulator, add a probability that a packet transmitted
> from an edge station to the central station doesn't get through. Ramp up
> this probability and watch what happens. A better simulator would scale the
> probability up based on the amount of airtime needed, so that as the sender
> slowes down, the probability goes up.
>
>
>
>
> This is one of the hardest problems for wifi to deal with. It manifests as
> massive amounts of lost packets when the first two are sending to the third
> one, and no amount of backoff helps. Slowing down the transmit rate just
> makes things worse as it takes longer to transmit each bundle and so it's
> more likely to be stepped on.
>
>
>
> Reading up on Minstrel at
> https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/developers/documentation/mac80211/ratecontrol/minstrel
> there is a comment
>
>> Inspection of the code in different rate algorithms left us bewildered.
>> Why did all the code bases we looked at contain the assumption that packets
>> sent at slow data rates are more likely to succeed than packets sent at
>> higher datarates? The physics behind this assumption baffled us. A slow data
>> rate packet has the highest possibility of being “shot down” by some other
>> node sending a packet.
>
>
> the answer to this is that the higher data rates require a better signal to
> noise ratio, and so if the problem is that the stations are too far apart,
> or there is a wall between them that makes the signal weaker, or that there
> is just a lot of low-volume noise in the area, the slower data rates are far
> more likely to be understandable than the faster data rates. Since Wifi was
> designed long before anyone imagined how common it would become (I remember
> when the pcmcia cards were >$1000 each rather than the current <$10 for a
> much faster USB adapter), they designed the protocol to fall back to lower
> rates if the packets don't get through.
>
> This works well if you are out in the boonies and trying for range. It fails
> horribly in very high density environments (this is why most conference wifi
> is worthless for example)
>
>
> This is why it's a good idea to disable the lowest data rates if you know
> that you don't need them.
>
>
>
> reading the minsrel page, it seems intuitively obvious to me that this
> random packet drop would really mess with their moving average and thus the
> decisions they end up making.
>
> David Lang



-- 
Dave Täht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
http://blog.cerowrt.org