From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-x229.google.com (mail-ob0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B23F21F65E for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 09:14:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by obbww6 with SMTP id ww6so78476129obb.0 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 09:14:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nHHEmSDbUc7mBH8MtZtnpmB0DhuDiZsV0vXIfmos0Tc=; b=NXa42lgS4qZ3znUraxwuqr0rAjnQ8N6pPapt/wRhm1bo4iCYmX0sxreeUvi0KmbaRh UAR+pSTYBT7oVrx646AB5exsE4C52qPJQzG+7CRZv0/ig4LWEPiG59wb2TyLaLC9wIut M0HYDUkRQvD3sVmVfaR/KqrNLzwGdaJAh2E5fVAxC5WiEYzkZkoVTvTdb/AP3y52eUVM s7S3HKlmZu6AUmXlqJorMWUo0XhhpNkOH0ifzm6BraXEoI8uvTWGnjbfsNBHAxvN7HPd UnrgPcqCbyLSYCPfKCq8ckiHNVSVewntaxb7MLZICMLswsuwjREATzYnV6+KTEJGEnXi oELA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.174.201 with SMTP id bu9mr13428642oec.37.1447434840568; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 09:14:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.202.61.133 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 09:14:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 18:14:00 +0100 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: Lauren Weinstein Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Christopher Waid , make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net, bufferbloat-fcc-discuss , fcc@lists.prplfoundation.org Subject: [Make-wifi-fast] FCC vs Wifi response discuss via videoconference today friday nov 13 X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 17:14:24 -0000 We are going to have a hangout on air videoconference on http://vuc.me/savewifi at 1pm EST, 6pm uk, today, friday, nov 13, to discuss possible responses to: https://www.fcc.gov/blog/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates The revised guidelines https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachment.html?id=3DzXtrctoj6zH7oNEOO6De6g%3D%= 3D&desc=3D594280%20D02%20U-NII%20Device%20Security%20v01r03&tracking_number= =3D39498 still seem quite problematic. It would be good to have more confirmed attendees. There are 15 seats reserved, only 7 confirmed as I write. Please confrim a reservation via http://vuc.me/savewifi which has more details on the video conference or via email. There has been some mixed press coverage thus far of: On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Lauren Weinstein wr= ote: > There's virtually no incentive for manufacturers to bother with any > finer-grained control than just locking users out completely. It simplifi= es > their customer support, it complies with the FCC. From their standpoint, > what's not to like? > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Christopher Waid > wrote: >> >> Of course this doesn't fix the problem. They don't understand it or they >> are intentionally avoiding solving the problem. The problem is the resul= t of >> what manufacturers will have to do to comply. It's not an issue of >> interpretation. It is that it can't be solved some other way. Narrowing = it >> to indicate they don't mean to require the lock down doesn't mean >> manufacturers won't ultimately have to lock it down in practice. Narrowi= ng >> it is just not going to change anything because of the way things are >> designed and manufactured. If it's less costly to take a short cut and >> implement DRM that's what manufacturers will have to do for a variety of >> reasons. >> >> We have no sane way to comply with these rules regardless of how narrow >> they make it. >> >> On 2015-11-12 01:29 PM, Wayne Workman wrote: >>> >>> I want to make it glaringly clear that in the past, 1930s through >>> early 50s, the FCC has been misused to prevent technology from >>> developing, has been used to cripple technology, and has been used to >>> prevent a shift of power in technology. >>> >>> One needs to look no further for proof than the development of FM >>> radio. I have a book that talked about it at some length, but I've >>> managed to find a Wikipedia article on the subject here for you all: >>> >>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Howard_Armstrong [6] >>> >>> In a nutshell, RCA was in kahoots with the FCC and blocked FM by >>> putting it on an absurd spectrum range, and then deemed pre-existing >>> patents owned by Edwin invalid after he perfected the technology, and >>> stole it from Edwin. After years and years of legal battles and loss, >>> Edwin committed suicide, stepping out of a high-rise window. >>> >>> I bring this up because of the wording used in the FCC comment. It's >>> worded like they are just going to do what they originally intended >>> anyways. >>> >>> And it's still not entirely clear to me exactly what their proposed >>> rules fixes. It smells very fishy. >>> On Nov 12, 2015 11:56 AM, "Lauren Weinstein" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> That's a rather carefully worded statement. In particular: >>>> >>>> _the proposal is not intended to encourage manufacturers to prevent >>>> all modifications or updates to device software._ >>>> >>>> can be interpreted in a number of ways, with the word "ALL" being >>>> key. >>>> >>>> L >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Chip Rosenthal >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> An FCC blog post just went up on this issue. >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> >>>>> Clearing the Air on Wi-Fi Software Updates >>>>> >>>>> by: Julius Knapp, Chief, Office of Engineering & Technology >>>>> November 12, 2015 - 12:09 PM >>>>> https://www.fcc.gov/blog/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates [1] >>>>> >>>>> This week marked the closing of the reply comment period in the >>>>> Commission=E2=80=99s radio device approval modernization rulemaking. = The >>>>> comments and replies are largely supportive of the Commission=E2=80= =99s >>>>> proposals, but one particular element generated thousands of >>>>> comments from individuals concerned that the proposal would >>>>> encourage manufacturers to prevent modifications or updates to the >>>>> software used in devices such as wireless local area networks >>>>> (e.g., Wi-Fi routers). I=E2=80=99m pleased that this issue attracted >>>>> considerable attention and thoughtful submissions into the record >>>>> and would like to make it clear that the proposal is not intended >>>>> to encourage manufacturers to prevent all modifications or updates >>>>> to device software. >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> >>>>> Interestingly, it mentions clarifying the U-NII rules already in >>>>> effect. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Chip Rosenthal * 512-573-5174 [2] * KE5VHV * >>>>> http://www.unicom.com/ [3] >>>>> Austin #OpenGov and #CivicHacking events: >>>>> http://www.open-austin.org/calendar [4] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> bufferbloat-fcc-discuss mailing list >>>>> bufferbloat-fcc-discuss@lists.redbarn.org >>>>> http://lists.redbarn.org/mailman/listinfo/bufferbloat-fcc-discuss >>>>> [5] >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> bufferbloat-fcc-discuss mailing list >>>> bufferbloat-fcc-discuss@lists.redbarn.org >>>> http://lists.redbarn.org/mailman/listinfo/bufferbloat-fcc-discuss >>>> [5] >>> >>> >>> >>> Links: >>> ------ >>> [1] https://www.fcc.gov/blog/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates >>> [2] tel:512-573-5174 >>> [3] http://www.unicom.com/ >>> [4] http://www.open-austin.org/calendar >>> [5] http://lists.redbarn.org/mailman/listinfo/bufferbloat-fcc-discuss >>> [6] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Howard_Armstrong >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> bufferbloat-fcc-discuss mailing list >>> bufferbloat-fcc-discuss@lists.redbarn.org >>> http://lists.redbarn.org/mailman/listinfo/bufferbloat-fcc-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > bufferbloat-fcc-discuss mailing list > bufferbloat-fcc-discuss@lists.redbarn.org > http://lists.redbarn.org/mailman/listinfo/bufferbloat-fcc-discuss >