From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x232.google.com (mail-oi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D43C3B25E; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 13:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x232.google.com with SMTP id u201so210823348oie.0; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:55:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YEqDkj6sKiMcqTKFwOG07VLVbl45Wby8u+39JOL3lmQ=; b=PT9wogit084owH8o53EyzJtPyjVBsrgxcHclaTeysS08AUJfxM9IwAL8LkadEADtnb BSDy/iCPlfm3amadgXka8ULgCDtrv+Jmn8IEXg8NFFe7tnDiw+xJOLBtoU6HBnC79ZTw u4icS/4HCUXEsrohy4FcovrmjCEWBcKo/EsH5lkkMzgt3KA/hoBjkzxXjwxcKzg2S1eA 9sonOoKP35IG+YNfHKYBY5w8cswUV4PO7bKVwfvJbW4J35ee4BB+lXkKaGBuSbyo2+nV wVW+hHU1guXVclUq3fVRSru5OK/XheunQULu1qexBSoCYQYVJueBgQHQlZTAVJtGN8XL 4Dng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YEqDkj6sKiMcqTKFwOG07VLVbl45Wby8u+39JOL3lmQ=; b=ivHWUvK01SQ393VosW/iFH2a0KZZxVpM6cShuUwNpqqN9lvy+GWLVhreABcOMmfJZ1 Za75YEfm6PV1nP8lrjzd5mGWTiy4LLVAv85wsX1wDdvEG6tUWbzSQRmSX440Bj5J0lXW 7bxrhib/Ns0yNjs/gH8M2IZdUSSBxvPbOGxWLR0Af9Gx/5maAd1N7qHmdIA7qPfM0/6e 2dxhnpiSMRruCh2lw2jA4O/tyVjTd6Ih0uCGdqmgYQWH8m77EqLCpa+DQW2lQNLMfl03 Or8mTcdq+5PHPLQ+mxsMVqWDn2bmnwBs3m8VhG4YFPEN8g8bTEcP/6uJ0NLTSGzk+3vL N4EA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKxfNfa8YOeUtoiRGtzfSyWpTRJCsjYkmQEh66eORSj9pbNHKKizoVtKjgIOKSL/AuKbT9DnYSeYRdjHg== X-Received: by 10.202.7.132 with SMTP id 126mr1524246oih.152.1467050132355; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:55:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.175.130 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:55:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1466803464.927322699@mobile.rackspace.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:55:31 -0700 Message-ID: To: David Lang Cc: Bob McMahon , make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net, "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] more well funded attempts showing market demandfor better wifi X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:55:33 -0000 In terms of wifi history... since I go back to the 70s... was that we did not know how to do it - 73 we had aloha, which begat ethernet... and for years progress was slow. Even as late as 91 or so a "good" microwave link cost something like 40k an end, and required special cooling and permits on so on. Wifi was started as an ipx/spx bridge tech that didn't start to get anywhere until the mid 90s. It was far from obvious at any point that the cost reductions would take place that did, there was so much work in the analog domain that looked (at the time) resistant to moores law. As for spectrum, finding ways to leverage 2.4ghz cost metricom's backers in particular more money than I care to think about, and I'm always pointing at how the discovery that a more centralized clock and a retransmit at the mac layer is what eventually made 802.11b viable. Many other wireless ideas have been tried and died - wimax, for example, UWB, for another. Bluetooth has evolved into adding "discovery prototol", which was kind of unexpected... (there is even 6lopan over bluetooth now). The 5ghz spectrum users have tended to adopt their own mac, as has some other less popular bands. While I'm pretty happy that we've got much of the queuing theory for fixing 802.11n and 802.1ac nailed now, outstanding problems include the hidden station problem, the rise in the background noise levels, insufficient channels, and increasingly proprietary standards and chipsets, as well as transport, switching and routing protocols layered on top originally designed for isochronus transports. I like to think (or possibly delude myself), that the solutions to airtime fairness scheduling now emerging may one day lead to saner scheduling around the hidden station problem in particular. Otherwise, and elsewhere, there remain a lot of rocks to bang together, and a long list of other issues we've captured elsewhere. I am still periodically reviewing and updating this as we go along, as it remains the best central document we have on all that's wrong in wifi with some hints as to how to go about fixing them. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Se36svYE1Uzpppe1HWnEyat_sAGghB3kE285LElJBW4/edit