From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk1-x741.google.com (mail-qk1-x741.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::741]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9C553BA8E for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 20:04:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qk1-x741.google.com with SMTP id q1so301722qkf.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:04:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IG/yV/Vy7MQ6qX/+3j25QWzm1BAnZehuu0MwaOBuDQw=; b=X8o1RwGXx6BmyQt6c2cOLSbjAZJTn3eAnWAFXF18bAedZ5jpxogVWE5Kc9IrBHkCwq 62qgb7kP3VwiAw6ZaXq2Vzt+nmciCj1oPwJ/HkFUZiPdLCjlq1NAa7Sixe9xst3zyJJN nkG0TiBd1grsr+TGKGfPHKIt1xfgtuw8KUl2iaZSaHdXaJOpFwiszWN4WNongW19y2AO Y7NxjGhOCBAoYvyc6HMbtqpO4a8rRuj1nL7UROfPV2kLBQxL+KkOYwzViaZZI9+1YeK0 CLW2TmW8MQbA6K16GrSSdmSPVhUY8h8Pe4TLrD9xN1vqN+lSylzafICWdxL+RqoCRCzL 8BvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IG/yV/Vy7MQ6qX/+3j25QWzm1BAnZehuu0MwaOBuDQw=; b=VQEWhCg8fWRbc8OaG7zUGKGAes2ic0LqT9ilF2+QOzacwjaBhFHzLanBOv7Yn5QaNg wzvl7ICs0+79G9IX0YMMbbDewmcg/hFXm+DnfMdV4f6hLuiN/KKTXMwCvtftU4/AZw9A mWJT3JUhjplAkMVyiqYdoolPZnhbUGxNmP9sKvMl47SRzCQ12sWJJd1aTMlwpV9RH3IA 4ia9wxUU+Da/qQqplOB71g9pXgGHKSi0UO7Lx4mbtMabrfG1PrHDSLn2hTW8B8/3m9zX NpsKgKgSC+tiMKbl2XTVhSJ5iCMyllkywEOpkRr/VlrDZN5ujjruCSj0xyhJvQLtlqG+ ecng== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKWGn7y37vJSVkdWT5vG0YTBLS7HbrPmfrqCmGP9UX6W4NgMY0z jcm9EUYqeD4026Rya77bwNitCo9obMaINkzM+P8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cUaenW4Azn/L7OaH6FYNnJmA1QtNq9/I/5r3e+dv0smlCZh9A2szZgP+guwWSHHixKDs2vaCcUQueRVJl83Q0= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3065:: with SMTP id g34mr24032768qte.136.1542675895230; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:04:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1542063113-22438-1-git-send-email-rmanohar@codeaurora.org> <1542063113-22438-4-git-send-email-rmanohar@codeaurora.org> <871s7nv9pl.fsf@toke.dk> <8e7847ff-4c88-10ae-2223-2fc7321641d9@nbd.name> <87sh02tfsp.fsf@toke.dk> <878t1p2bqz.fsf@taht.net> <87muq4sn50.fsf@toke.dk> <4DD985B6-7DBE-42F8-AC87-D6B40CEAE553@superduper.net> <6beaeb84-b705-335b-93a7-36176495099b@candelatech.com> <46F43681-DF84-4E08-9426-328BA7AE1CED@superduper.net> In-Reply-To: <46F43681-DF84-4E08-9426-328BA7AE1CED@superduper.net> From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:04:43 -0800 Message-ID: To: Simon Barber Cc: Ben Greear , =?UTF-8?B?VG9rZSBIw7hpbGFuZC1Kw7hyZ2Vuc2Vu?= , Rajkumar Manoharan , Make-Wifi-fast , linux-wireless , ath10k , Felix Fietkau Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [PATCH v3 3/6] mac80211: Add airtime accounting and scheduling to TXQs X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:04:55 -0000 On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 4:52 PM Simon Barber wrote: > > Low-e glass, it=E2=80=99s a thin metallic film used to reflect infra-red = to keep heat in or out. Totally blocks/reflects RF. Very cool. I imagine it's hell on cell too? I can see this stuff becoming very popular in places where keeping the good wifi in is important. Could cover floors and ceilings with it to. Cars could be tempest rated... /me goes looking for stock to buy > Simon > > On Nov 19, 2018, at 4:20 PM, Ben Greear wrote: > > On 11/19/2018 04:13 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 3:56 PM Ben Greear wrot= e: > > > On 11/19/2018 03:47 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 3:30 PM Simon Barber wrote= : > > > > > On Nov 19, 2018, at 2:44 PM, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen wrote: > > Dave Taht writes: > > Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen writes: > > Felix Fietkau writes: > > On 2018-11-14 18:40, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen wrote: > > This part doesn't really make much sense to me, but maybe I'm > misunderstanding how the code works. > Let's assume we have a driver like ath9k or mt76, which tries to keep a > > =E2=80=A6. > > > Well, there's going to be a BQL-like queue limit (but for airtime) on > top, which drivers can opt-in to if the hardware has too much queueing. > > > Very happy to read this - I first talked to Dave Taht about the need for = Time Queue Limits more than 5 years ago! > > > Michal faked up a dql estimator 3 (?) years ago. it worked. > > http://blog.cerowrt.org/post/dql_on_wifi_2/ > > As a side note, in *any* real world working mu-mimo situation at any > scale, on any equipment, does anyone have any stats on how often the > feature is actually used and useful? > > My personal guess, from looking at the standard, was in home > scenarios, usage would be about... 0, and in a controlled environment > in a football stadium, quite a lot. > > In a office or apartment complex, I figured interference and so forth > would make it a negative benefit due to retransmits. > > I felt when that part of the standard rolled around... that mu-mimo > was an idea that should never have escaped the lab. I can be convinced > by data, that we can aim for a higher goal here. But it would be > comforting to have a measured non-lab, real-world, at real world > rates, result for it, on some platform, of it actually being useful. > > > We're working on building a lab with 20 or 30 mixed 'real' devices > using various different /AC NICs (QCA wave2 on OpenWRT, Fedora, realtek U= SB 8812au on OpenWRT, Fedora, > and some Intel NICs in NUCs on Windows, and maybe more). I'm not actuall= y sure if that realtek > or the NUCs can do MU-MIMO or not, but the QCA NICs will be able to. It= should be at least somewhat similar > to a classroom environment or coffee shop. > > > In the last 3 coffee shops I went to, I could hear over 30 APs on > competing SSIDs, running G, N, and AC, > occupying every available channel. > > > I especially like when someone uses channel 3 because, I guess, they > think it is un-used :) > > I'm not sure if this was a fluke or not, but at Starbucks recently I sat = outside, > right next to their window, and could not scan their AP at all. Previous= ly, I sat > inside, 3 feet away through the glass, and got great signal. I wonder wh= at that was > all about! Maybe special tinting that blocks RF? Or just dumb luck of s= ome sort. > > Thanks, > Ben > > > -- > Ben Greear > Candela Technologies Inc http://www.candelatech.com > > --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740