From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-x22d.google.com (mail-ob0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B988721F8D6; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 01:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obuk4 with SMTP id k4so77762867obu.2; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 01:36:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2DvM4cazJW03McsE7J8L+kXwUpWf35iK9Ffp9frbgtk=; b=c67O7iVCnTesvuyxQLW9Y1XFQaH+yH2Km04tF4ZfMEanZBaiGThxbhIKOV9jTaFPEM P10K41UzlJcWW5Z0LIDzOUDKs8K0PLR8xmO+7HiGWOWT2wB54kH7TAXgcdijqnCxy3mh TEXPjBfVyCRGIvQiR7W6k1+OZC8tUn88Mog3rFlvUH1eo0zynlktlcaLpggO4S0mpeLs 7EAy0WivtSlLF9Y03T7MMzdvKbWZMGeety418uDdTq8MY+kq754v8Omsr2hzDNpsTTVJ ygV/nTsYCX7IHMR9e4+kODQUeCslUREdJ3b42ocC1kWu69tHGN8UF1KJvKjB0FIG7I/5 Pziw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.44.198 with SMTP id g6mr18216666obm.25.1441701388467; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 01:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.50.135 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 01:36:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <3622_1441530152_55EC0128_3622_12857_1_trq0v99audwl95cwathr8odm.1441530143942@email.android.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 01:36:28 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: Mikael Abrahamsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net" , cerowrt-devel , bloat Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Bloat] RE : Save WiFi from the FCC - DEADLINE is in 3 days *September* 8 X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 08:36:52 -0000 On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 1:22 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote= : > On Tue, 8 Sep 2015, Dave Taht wrote: > >> wifi, and the carriers... which bugs me. 5.x ghz is the people's >> spectrum, that we should be free to use any way we want... and to make Please note that the LTE-U debate is separate from the lockdown debate, which only has a day to run. Can we get more letters into the FCC for the lockdown problem? > > > Well, in the US at least, corporations are people, so... Corporations are people now, with an indefinite lifespan - with the rights of an adult, and the morals of a child. If it were up to me, the lifetime of a corporation would be inversely proportional to the number of employees. Lest you think this is crazy, corporations were formed only for limited times and purposes all the way up to the late 1800s. I try really hard not to let my politics not interfere with engineering truths - I'm always quoting feynman's last comments on the shuttle commission on that. > But that aside, I don't know if there is anything that can be done really= , > unlicensed is unlicensed and if it's not free for everybody to use, what = is > it? Yes, a core difference in outlook is that - after two decades of "the public"'s use - what people insist on calling "unlicensed" spectrum is really "the people's" spectrum - and if more people thought about it that way, they would be reluctant to hand over even a tiny bit of it to the carriers. And jeeze, what makes sense - on the "licensed" spectrum - is the government auctions it off for big bucks one year, and then the public pays rents on it for all eternity. Far saner to have more openly available spectrum One failed concept in america, at least, is the idea of a commons - as in a tragedy of the commons - elsewhere, for example, "public lands" are actually "the queen's" lands and people tend to treat them with more respect. Still... a meme to propigate and redefine the debate with is that 2.4 and 5.x ghz is now - by common usage - the "public's" spectrum, and not "unlicenced" spectrum. There are other precedents - at least in europe - for defining things this way - squatters rights, etc. - but jeeze, really, anyone with a wifi AP of their own should have a visceral reaction to anyone else encroaching on it.... > Also, isn't it pretty much the same players in wifi and LTE space, Qualco= mm, > Broadcom and the others, they're in both spaces and I don't see what they > have to gain to make wifi worse? I don't see them doing a whole lot to make wifi better, either. > And 802.11 isn't really open either, and the unlicensed spectrum still > requires that devices are approved to be operated there, right, so if FCC > and the likes do their job properly then these technologies should work > together at least on the RF level? I appreciate the optimism, but honestly, given the low level of analysis so far, my vote would be to boot the whole idea back to the beginning for a couple years to bake some more. And to go back to improving wifi dramatically, in ways everyone can use. For free. > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht endo is a terrible disease: http://www.gofundme.com/SummerVsEndo