[Make-wifi-fast] gaming dscp codepoint?

[Make-wifi-fast] gaming dscp codepoint?

[Dave Taht]

cs4?

cs4 and cs5 end up (typically) in the (oft buggy) linux vi queue on wifi.

ef?

do any of the gamers here observe any codepoints in use? When I
surveyed this a few years ago, I saw very little usage, and what
little there was was all over the map.

(me I care only about cs1)

-- 

Dave Täht
CEO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-669-226-2619

Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] gaming dscp codepoint?

[Jonathan Morton]

> On 25 Jul, 2018, at 3:01 am, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> cs4?
> 
> cs4 and cs5 end up (typically) in the (oft buggy) linux vi queue on wifi.
> 
> ef?
> 
> do any of the gamers here observe any codepoints in use? When I
> surveyed this a few years ago, I saw very little usage, and what
> little there was was all over the map.

If it were up to me, I would use EF for realtime position/command updates and voice comms, CS0 for everything non-time-critical (like matchmaking, garage, shop), and CS1 for downloading patches.

Reason is, EF is the only DSCP I can count on being interpreted as "latency sensitive" rather than "for video streaming".

 - Jonathan Morton

Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] gaming dscp codepoint?

[Dave Taht]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 5:06 PM Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 25 Jul, 2018, at 3:01 am, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > cs4?
> >
> > cs4 and cs5 end up (typically) in the (oft buggy) linux vi queue on wifi.
> >
> > ef?
> >
> > do any of the gamers here observe any codepoints in use? When I
> > surveyed this a few years ago, I saw very little usage, and what
> > little there was was all over the map.
>
> If it were up to me,

Wasn't my question. Do you observe any of your games using any codepoints?

>I would use EF for realtime position/command updates and voice comms, CS0 for everything non-time-critical (like matchmaking, garage, shop), and CS1 for downloading patches.

Well, I was leaning towards cs4. I no longer remember what ef maps
into on linux wifi, particularly since qos_map_set was created for
hostapd. Is openwrt tweaking that at all?

These days my aps do not use 802.11e at all and I'm about to push a
change forcing a max of 2ms per AC via the beacon.

Clients on campus don't seem to use much dscp but I'm certainly seeing
ecn from apple devices now.


>
> Reason is, EF is the only DSCP I can count on being interpreted as "latency sensitive" rather than "for video streaming".
>
>  - Jonathan Morton
>


-- 

Dave Täht
CEO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-669-226-2619

Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] gaming dscp codepoint?

[dpreed]

I don't quite understand this. Diffserv may exist, but no Internet operators support it. It may be "supported" in edge devices, but since the "service" is in the network queueing, who cares?

The Linux gamer market is rounding error in the global game community.

And console gamers depend on the ISP's non-implementation.

Caveat: I have said for years that diffserv's huge list of codepoints is essentially the result of a committee that has gone wild, creating a standard that is missing any useful path to adoption. There's no computable "translation" of the vague descriptions in the standard to a predictable router queueing behavior. This is super true in places like LTE, where you can observe bad congestion and bufferbloat even today.

Discussing what codepoint means what is like discussing trivia about an imaginary fantasy land.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:34pm
To: "Jonathan Morton" <chromatix99@gmail.com>
Cc: "Cake List" <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>, "Make-Wifi-fast" <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] gaming dscp codepoint?

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 5:06 PM Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 25 Jul, 2018, at 3:01 am, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > cs4?
> >
> > cs4 and cs5 end up (typically) in the (oft buggy) linux vi queue on wifi.
> >
> > ef?
> >
> > do any of the gamers here observe any codepoints in use? When I
> > surveyed this a few years ago, I saw very little usage, and what
> > little there was was all over the map.
>
> If it were up to me,

Wasn't my question. Do you observe any of your games using any codepoints?

>I would use EF for realtime position/command updates and voice comms, CS0 for everything non-time-critical (like matchmaking, garage, shop), and CS1 for downloading patches.

Well, I was leaning towards cs4. I no longer remember what ef maps
into on linux wifi, particularly since qos_map_set was created for
hostapd. Is openwrt tweaking that at all?

These days my aps do not use 802.11e at all and I'm about to push a
change forcing a max of 2ms per AC via the beacon.

Clients on campus don't seem to use much dscp but I'm certainly seeing
ecn from apple devices now.


>
> Reason is, EF is the only DSCP I can count on being interpreted as "latency sensitive" rather than "for video streaming".
>
>  - Jonathan Morton
>


-- 

Dave Täht
CEO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-669-226-2619
_______________________________________________
Make-wifi-fast mailing list
Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast
-- 
Reed Online Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Company 
Registration Number: 6317279.Registered Office: Academy Court, 94 Chancery 
Lane, London WC2A 1DT.

Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] gaming dscp codepoint?

[Jim Gettys]

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My memory is that some games do set diffserv bits, but I don't remember
exactly which one is set by what games.  PFIFO-FAST reputedly had support
for that particular code point. (rather, PFIFO-FAST had some sort of
support, and the gamers noticed and some used it.

I mostly agree with the rest of Dave Reed's points, with some caveats.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 2:54 PM dpreed@deepplum.com <dpreed@deepplum.com>
wrote:

> I don't quite understand this. Diffserv may exist, but no Internet
> operators support it. It may be "supported" in edge devices, but since the
> "service" is in the network queueing, who cares?
>
> The Linux gamer market is rounding error in the global game community.
>
> And console gamers depend on the ISP's non-implementation.
>
> Caveat: I have said for years that diffserv's huge list of codepoints is
> essentially the result of a committee that has gone wild, creating a
> standard that is missing any useful path to adoption. There's no computable
> "translation" of the vague descriptions in the standard to a predictable
> router queueing behavior. This is super true in places like LTE, where you
> can observe bad congestion and bufferbloat even today.
>
> Discussing what codepoint means what is like discussing trivia about an
> imaginary fantasy land.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:34pm
> To: "Jonathan Morton" <chromatix99@gmail.com>
> Cc: "Cake List" <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>, "Make-Wifi-fast" <
> make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] gaming dscp codepoint?
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 5:06 PM Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 25 Jul, 2018, at 3:01 am, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > cs4?
> > >
> > > cs4 and cs5 end up (typically) in the (oft buggy) linux vi queue on
> wifi.
> > >
> > > ef?
> > >
> > > do any of the gamers here observe any codepoints in use? When I
> > > surveyed this a few years ago, I saw very little usage, and what
> > > little there was was all over the map.
> >
> > If it were up to me,
>
> Wasn't my question. Do you observe any of your games using any codepoints?
>
> >I would use EF for realtime position/command updates and voice comms, CS0
> for everything non-time-critical (like matchmaking, garage, shop), and CS1
> for downloading patches.
>
> Well, I was leaning towards cs4. I no longer remember what ef maps
> into on linux wifi, particularly since qos_map_set was created for
> hostapd. Is openwrt tweaking that at all?
>
> These days my aps do not use 802.11e at all and I'm about to push a
> change forcing a max of 2ms per AC via the beacon.
>
> Clients on campus don't seem to use much dscp but I'm certainly seeing
> ecn from apple devices now.
>
>
> >
> > Reason is, EF is the only DSCP I can count on being interpreted as
> "latency sensitive" rather than "for video streaming".
> >
> >  - Jonathan Morton
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Dave Täht
> CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-669-226-2619
> _______________________________________________
> Make-wifi-fast mailing list
> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast
> --
> Reed Online Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Company
> Registration Number: 6317279.Registered Office: Academy Court, 94 Chancery
> Lane, London WC2A 1DT.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Make-wifi-fast mailing list
> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast

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