From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd34.google.com (mail-io1-xd34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 455C73CB39 for ; Fri, 1 May 2020 16:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd34.google.com with SMTP id i19so5952778ioh.12 for ; Fri, 01 May 2020 13:09:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=netflix.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uIHkAhROgBMNqLdjd2CO5/Vjgn6aA3oAU1CoJ1QBquE=; b=Whtdv0mVycxySBfE9JzMFUvfCGt13rNRB1UcCCElANo9V46lJ7ui5Rs8GRu2GUhIty yHccgZEhXhAUBUpYzK9i5fNOyWhf3h0b+jRTaeOB+aR2Y4AtZY5Q2rocFteIkdcVapni sis+H85vIGEICal+y0XRVoxQBTjAdNnfJdyoc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uIHkAhROgBMNqLdjd2CO5/Vjgn6aA3oAU1CoJ1QBquE=; b=jefExUi/J1vuXb8Izr7bJcBgxAtoNR15q8z5W1/PYhZpQjgGhm8uINKSVYzre5nEEr YD2Vkyhz72Z3kepdc4ngv3X7TtDHl1HzQhYV1j0zKu+fr1nVMCPzRRIien+pzYRi5JlX nQZGFdIlSXeV/Rvp+oR+ZGII8817OF70L/95m14dynFCMCdWrzBCp+djrfkmBsuqBf7a VAl4sNgnApGxI1pAOd8i/1ecVOnLFRrG9+fCR7JIWJSqhSd2+OepPRTtmdaWBI1VcUxN V22by3V1AGxzgRNpG7Qdq8L+m3utSxVlnxchOPYi+GzuQxBXilu2tYkicdNjPZpcSB69 vowg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubAaoybS9hdp324dEG8t94jYX9yUE772Z2zixc8Jgvyoy3CyorE sfbC4wv4LplZc74kYwO4j8OwA/jmbPEo0Wwz77PbMQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLhekMEb/DGmSWCcQvTS7mHzTCbMHA/W6S9RjmNKXuLRxa6ZhG27YsVvpFZrN4Y2hwYqTSPduLZNFBOBZBQu3A= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9c88:: with SMTP id p8mr5388932iop.200.1588363785645; Fri, 01 May 2020 13:09:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <05410663-5E50-4CF5-8ADE-3BBB985E32B1@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <05410663-5E50-4CF5-8ADE-3BBB985E32B1@gmx.de> From: Sergey Fedorov Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 13:09:09 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cake] dslreports is no longer free To: Sebastian Moeller Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Cake List , Make-Wifi-fast , cerowrt-devel , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000037f8ba05a49bc366" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 May 2020 16:19:15 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2020 20:09:46 -0000 --00000000000037f8ba05a49bc366 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great review, Sebastian! > NETFLIX: fast.com. > Pros: allows selection of upload testing, supposedly decent > back-end, duration configurable > allows unloaded, loaded download and loaded upload RTT > measurements (but reports sinlge numbers for loaded and unloaded RTT, tha= t > are not the max) > Cons: RTT report as two numbers one for the loaded and one for > unloaded RTT, time-course of RTTs missing > BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, but oh, so close... Just a note that I have a plan to separate the loaded latency into upload/download. It's not great UX now they way it's implemented. The timeline view is a bit more nuanced, in the spirit of the simplistic UX, but I've been thinking on a good way to show that for super users as well. Two latency numbers - that's more user friendly, we want the general user to understand the meaning. And latency under load is much easier than bufferbloat. As a side note, if our backend is decent, I'm curious what are the backends for the speed tests that exist that are great :) SERGEY FEDOROV Director of Engineering sfedorov@netflix.com 121 Albright Way | Los Gatos, CA 95032 On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 12:48 PM Sebastian Moeller wrote: > Hi Dave, > > well, it was a free service and it lasted a long time. I want to raise a > toast to Justin and convey my sincere thanks for years of investing into > the "good" of the internet. > > Now, the question is which test is going to be the rightful successor? > > Short of running netperf/irtt/iper2/iperf3 on a hosted server, I see lots > of potential but none of the tests are really there yet (grievances in no= w > particular order): > > OOKLA: speedtest.net. > Pros: ubiquitious, allows selection of single flow versus > multi-flow test, allows server selection > Cons: only IPv4, only static unloaded RTT measurement, no control > over measurement duration > BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, maybe usable as load generator > > > NETFLIX: fast.com. > Pros: allows selection of upload testing, supposedly decent > back-end, duration configurable > allows unloaded, loaded download and loaded upload RTT > measurements (but reports sinlge numbers for loaded and unloaded RTT, tha= t > are not the max) > Cons: RTT report as two numbers one for the loaded and one for > unloaded RTT, time-course of RTTs missing > BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, but oh, so close... > > > NPERF: nperf.com > Pros: allows server selection, RTT measurement and report as time > course, also reports average rates and static RTT/jitter for Up- and > Download > Cons: RTT measurement for unloaded only, reported RTT static only > , no control over measurement duration > BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, > > > THINKBROADBAND: www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest > Pros: IPv6, reports coarse RTT time courses for all three > measurement phases > Cons: only static unloaded RTT report in final results, time > courses only visible immediately after testing, no control over measureme= nt > duration > BUFFERBLOAT verdict: a bit coarse, might work for users within a > reasonable distance to the UK for acute de-bloating sessions (history > reporting is bad though) > > > honorable mentioning: > BREITBANDMESSUNG: breitbandmessung.de > Pros: query of contracted internet access speed before > measurement, with a scheduler that will only start a test when the backen= d > has sufficient capacity to saturate the user-supplied contracted rates, > IPv6 (happy-eyeballs) > Cons: only static unloaded RTT measurement, no control over > measurement duration > BUFFERBLOAT verdict: unsuitable, exceot as load generator, but th= e > bandwidth reservation feature is quite nice. > > Best Regards > Sebastian > > > > On May 1, 2020, at 18:44, Dave Taht wrote: > > > > > https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/gbd6g0/dsl_reports_speed= _test_no_longer_free/ > > > > They ran out of bandwidth. > > > > Message to users here: > > > > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest > > > > > > -- > > Make Music, Not War > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > CTO, TekLibre, LLC > > http://www.teklibre.com > > Tel: 1-831-435-0729 > > _______________________________________________ > > Cake mailing list > > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --00000000000037f8ba05a49bc366 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Great review,=C2=A0Sebastian!
=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">NETFLIX:=C2=A0fast.com.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pros: allows selection of upload testing, supposed= ly decent back-end, duration configurable
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 allows unloaded, loaded download and loaded upl= oad RTT measurements (but reports sinlge numbers for loaded and unloaded RT= T, that are not the max)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cons: RTT report as= two numbers one for the loaded and one for unloaded RTT, time-course of RT= Ts missing
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, = but oh, so close...
Just a note that I have a plan to sepa= rate the loaded=C2=A0latency=C2=A0into upload/download. It's not great = UX now they way it's implemented.
The timeline view is a bit = more nuanced, in the spirit of the simplistic UX, but I've been=C2=A0th= inking=C2=A0on a good way to show that for super=C2=A0users as well.
<= div>Two latency numbers - that's more user friendly, we want the genera= l user to understand the meaning. And latency under load is much easier tha= n bufferbloat.

As a side note, if our backend is d= ecent, I'm curious=C2=A0what are the backends for the speed tests that = exist that are great :)
=C2=A0

SERGEY F= EDOROV

Director of Engineering<= /p>

sfedorov@netflix.com

121 Albright Way | Los= Gatos, CA 95032




On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 12:48 = PM Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de= > wrote:
= Hi Dave,

well, it was a free service and it lasted a long time. I want to raise a to= ast to Justin and convey my sincere thanks for years of investing into the = "good" of the internet.

Now, the question is which test is going to be the rightful successor?

Short of running netperf/irtt/iper2/iperf3 on a hosted server, I see lots o= f potential but none of the tests are really there yet (grievances in now p= articular order):

OOKLA: speedtest.net.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pros: ubiquitious, allows selection of single f= low versus multi-flow test, allows server selection
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cons: only IPv4, only static unloaded RTT measu= rement, no control over measurement duration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, maybe usable a= s load generator


NETFLIX: f= ast.com.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pros: allows selection of upload testing, suppo= sedly decent back-end, duration configurable
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 allows unloaded, lo= aded download and loaded upload RTT measurements (but reports sinlge number= s for loaded and unloaded RTT, that are not the max)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cons: RTT report as two numbers one for the loa= ded and one for unloaded RTT, time-course of RTTs missing
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, but oh, so clo= se...


NPERF: np= erf.com
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pros: allows server selection, RTT measurement = and report as time course, also reports average rates and static RTT/jitter= for Up- and Download
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cons: RTT measurement for unloaded only, report= ed RTT static only , no control over measurement duration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete,


THINKBROADBAND: www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pros: IPv6, reports coarse RTT time courses for= all three measurement phases
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cons: only static unloaded RTT report in final = results, time courses only visible immediately after testing, no control ov= er measurement duration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BUFFERBLOAT verdict: a bit coarse, might work f= or users within a reasonable distance to the UK for acute de-bloating sessi= ons (history reporting is bad though)


honorable mentioning:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BREITBANDMESSUNG: breitbandmessung.de
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pros: query of contracted internet access speed= before measurement, with a scheduler that will only start a test when the = backend has sufficient capacity to saturate the user-supplied contracted ra= tes, IPv6 (happy-eyeballs)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cons: only static unloaded RTT measurement, no = control over measurement duration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BUFFERBLOAT verdict: unsuitable, exceot as load= generator, but the bandwidth reservation feature is quite nice.

Best Regards
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sebastian


> On May 1, 2020, at 18:44, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> h= ttps://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/gbd6g0/dsl_reports_speed_te= st_no_longer_free/
>
> They ran out of bandwidth.
>
> Message to users here:
>
> http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest
>
>
> --
> Make Music, Not War
>
> Dave T=C3=A4ht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@l= ists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake

_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@list= s.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
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