From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x533.google.com (mail-ed1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D20DD3B29E for ; Mon, 9 Aug 2021 14:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x533.google.com with SMTP id n12so2296903edx.8 for ; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 11:57:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=broadcom.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tRNohe5NkniGcuDMjo+iEcrcizo/bflfyiGqtxFcZYE=; b=YdHmxmG/RgvvCOAVvYlAM1hNBdbI5xqeGvZjBh7aWc74KvqJ5MYfBrT9Iik+QDHFfd TKhkCgdbHApX383qkMKPc/cMk6J+k8CZTEmjIlodXDzUKLvrNgzBxhnseMbMsf8Q0pIL Ph1eM0XD/gAXH1hszSMoSbkuu2V44gcXOOo7g= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tRNohe5NkniGcuDMjo+iEcrcizo/bflfyiGqtxFcZYE=; b=Z72olSMzETE5XtLZ3hXHZZnenbmuiJiSD66tQeRvdwUv1+tYPGR8mNzLdo3rVpZgvK DmzgV6/gPX19McP9fDyG+9Na/22FzRnKbKR7xxYGV7IZfueZ2DMXjj4BVaH1Lzemc17D v1nJ64frvgTM0L4A9GYwnGbO+n3M6fdSfJjMTYYhB9D7GuAXx5x8Fqgp0adK1XN2yM2f flTPJWODQ+IP9dWUXXMdvpJDHpYYoLR3BH5vBZ9mRKcupZjyfBD9zQxw2aU6mByHiFGC hmf03SikJfPW8BCgniQt7DZ7xQTuQqv9/UR5SsclKc4l/E4vkxP1Q1XtZWI3D+ikhv8D NMrw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530HZOwQYi5EHYNYLXku4Yl4X+8d50Y9nG3k5OiCWbJxq5/OCOrU fDB3Bw33RZX2EgHnmKKBwmA6xXRsQIeG+TLo5+SCIctyM7Wp1mpB3u/Nz0iyQ4ErUrxs/YIb9+z FVPsjNewsXhOUsi0G76pd0WrWOlUI72jK6FG+PpiVOQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzTdsw1WBlEBbE/LQ+ED1/C2/nJ+oWHJVdkH9wctmkMcspsUXKQOUyyVACcrRj7VWE232dkmQHcyHwM6NJetOA= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:c357:: with SMTP id j23mr31678182edr.370.1628535443711; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 11:57:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Bob McMahon Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 11:57:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jon Pike Cc: Make-Wifi-fast Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="000000000000a4ae7805c924f436" Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] Make-wifi-fast Digest, Vol 75, Issue 9 X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2021 18:57:25 -0000 --000000000000a4ae7805c924f436 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a1008205c924f4be" --000000000000a1008205c924f4be Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" A challenge we test guys have is providing systems and information that are "immediately actionable" by engineers. In that context, if we can provide test rigs that support sufficient reproducibilty then engineers can use "trial and error" which is typically the approach used in complex systems that are programmable, particularly systems that are non-linear and have non parametric distributions in their metrics. Just being able to reproduce non-parametric distributions is quite an achievement. But that's not typically good enough as one has to prove the non-parametric distributions are self similar. And then we can get thousands or more of them. (The kolmogorov-smirnov helps with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov%E2%80%93Smirnov_test I would say, "Thank God for computers" but God didn't build computers. A bunch of predecessors did so "Thank God for them") All of this requires a lot of "computer control" over the "RF channels." Bob On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 11:06 AM Jon Pike wrote: > Sidelines guy here, with a half baked suggestion... > > I wonder how practical a "Nielson Method" approach might be? As in, you > set up a bunch of routers with internal data gathering and reporting , and > give them to a few hundred households... > > I can see that to do that would be a not insignificant undertaking itself, > as well as managing it... and you'd never have as much data on what's > happening in the houses when X happens as you might like, but it would > beat renting lots of houses. > > On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 9:00 AM > wrote: > >> >> Our real world test is using a real house that has been rented. Not cheap >> nor scalable. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast -- This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any printed copy of it. --000000000000a1008205c924f4be Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A challenge we test guys have is providing systems and inf= ormation that are=C2=A0 "immediately actionable" by engineers. In= that context, if we can provide test rigs that support sufficient reproduc= ibilty then engineers can use "trial and error" which is typicall= y the approach used in complex systems that are programmable, particularly= =C2=A0systems that are non-linear and have non parametric distributions in = their metrics.=C2=A0 Just being able to reproduce non-parametric distributi= ons is quite an achievement. But that's not typically good enough as on= e has to prove the non-parametric distributions are self similar. And then = we can get thousands or more of them. (The kolmogorov-smirnov helps with th= is=C2=A0https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov%E2%80%93Smirnov_test=C2= =A0 I would say, "Thank God for computers" but God didn't bui= ld computers. A bunch of predecessors=C2=A0did so "Thank God for them&= quot;)

All of this requires a lot of "computer control" ov= er the "RF channels."

Bob

<= br>
On Mon,= Aug 9, 2021 at 11:06 AM Jon Pike <jonpike54@gmail.com> wrote:
Sidelines guy here, with a half= baked suggestion...

I w= onder how practical a "Nielson Method" approach might be?=C2=A0 A= s in, you set up a bunch of routers with internal data gathering and report= ing ,=C2=A0 and give them to a few hundred households...=C2=A0

I can see that to do that would be a= not insignificant undertaking itself, as well as managing it...=C2=A0 and = you'd never have as much data on what's happening in the houses whe= n X happens as you might like,=C2=A0 =C2=A0but it would beat renting lots o= f houses.

On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 9:00 AM <make-wifi-fast-request@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Our real world test is using a real= house that has been rented. Not cheap nor scalable.


_______________________________________________
Make-wifi-fast mailing list
M= ake-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wif= i-fast
This ele= ctronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it= , or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use o= f the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain informat= ion that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or= otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the in= tended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the= intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distrib= uting, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is st= rictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return the = e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any printed= copy of it. --000000000000a1008205c924f4be-- --000000000000a4ae7805c924f436 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIIQagYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIQWzCCEFcCAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADALBgkqhkiG9w0BBwGg gg3BMIIFDTCCA/WgAwIBAgIQeEqpED+lv77edQixNJMdADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADBMMSAwHgYD VQQLExdHbG9iYWxTaWduIFJvb3QgQ0EgLSBSMzETMBEGA1UEChMKR2xvYmFsU2lnbjETMBEGA1UE AxMKR2xvYmFsU2lnbjAeFw0yMDA5MTYwMDAwMDBaFw0yODA5MTYwMDAwMDBaMFsxCzAJBgNVBAYT AkJFMRkwFwYDVQQKExBHbG9iYWxTaWduIG52LXNhMTEwLwYDVQQDEyhHbG9iYWxTaWduIEdDQyBS MyBQZXJzb25hbFNpZ24gMiBDQSAyMDIwMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA vbCmXCcsbZ/a0fRIQMBxp4gJnnyeneFYpEtNydrZZ+GeKSMdHiDgXD1UnRSIudKo+moQ6YlCOu4t rVWO/EiXfYnK7zeop26ry1RpKtogB7/O115zultAz64ydQYLe+a1e/czkALg3sgTcOOcFZTXk38e aqsXsipoX1vsNurqPtnC27TWsA7pk4uKXscFjkeUE8JZu9BDKaswZygxBOPBQBwrA5+20Wxlk6k1 e6EKaaNaNZUy30q3ArEf30ZDpXyfCtiXnupjSK8WU2cK4qsEtj09JS4+mhi0CTCrCnXAzum3tgcH cHRg0prcSzzEUDQWoFxyuqwiwhHu3sPQNmFOMwIDAQABo4IB2jCCAdYwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgGG MGAGA1UdJQRZMFcGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggrBgEFBQcDBAYKKwYBBAGCNxQCAgYKKwYBBAGCNwoDBAYJ KwYBBAGCNxUGBgorBgEEAYI3CgMMBggrBgEFBQcDBwYIKwYBBQUHAxEwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB /wIBADAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUljPR5lgXWzR1ioFWZNW+SN6hj88wHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUj/BLf6guRSSu TVD6Y5qL3uLdG7wwegYIKwYBBQUHAQEEbjBsMC0GCCsGAQUFBzABhiFodHRwOi8vb2NzcC5nbG9i YWxzaWduLmNvbS9yb290cjMwOwYIKwYBBQUHMAKGL2h0dHA6Ly9zZWN1cmUuZ2xvYmFsc2lnbi5j b20vY2FjZXJ0L3Jvb3QtcjMuY3J0MDYGA1UdHwQvMC0wK6ApoCeGJWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuZ2xvYmFs c2lnbi5jb20vcm9vdC1yMy5jcmwwWgYDVR0gBFMwUTALBgkrBgEEAaAyASgwQgYKKwYBBAGgMgEo CjA0MDIGCCsGAQUFBwIBFiZodHRwczovL3d3dy5nbG9iYWxzaWduLmNvbS9yZXBvc2l0b3J5LzAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFAAOCAQEAdAXk/XCnDeAOd9nNEUvWPxblOQ/5o/q6OIeTYvoEvUUi2qHUOtbf jBGdTptFsXXe4RgjVF9b6DuizgYfy+cILmvi5hfk3Iq8MAZsgtW+A/otQsJvK2wRatLE61RbzkX8 9/OXEZ1zT7t/q2RiJqzpvV8NChxIj+P7WTtepPm9AIj0Keue+gS2qvzAZAY34ZZeRHgA7g5O4TPJ /oTd+4rgiU++wLDlcZYd/slFkaT3xg4qWDepEMjT4T1qFOQIL+ijUArYS4owpPg9NISTKa1qqKWJ jFoyms0d0GwOniIIbBvhI2MJ7BSY9MYtWVT5jJO3tsVHwj4cp92CSFuGwunFMzCCA18wggJHoAMC AQICCwQAAAAAASFYUwiiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMEwxIDAeBgNVBAsTF0dsb2JhbFNpZ24gUm9v dCBDQSAtIFIzMRMwEQYDVQQKEwpHbG9iYWxTaWduMRMwEQYDVQQDEwpHbG9iYWxTaWduMB4XDTA5 MDMxODEwMDAwMFoXDTI5MDMxODEwMDAwMFowTDEgMB4GA1UECxMXR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBSb290IENB IC0gUjMxEzARBgNVBAoTCkdsb2JhbFNpZ24xEzARBgNVBAMTCkdsb2JhbFNpZ24wggEiMA0GCSqG SIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDMJXaQeQZ4Ihb1wIO2hMoonv0FdhHFrYhy/EYCQ8eyip0E XyTLLkvhYIJG4VKrDIFHcGzdZNHr9SyjD4I9DCuul9e2FIYQebs7E4B3jAjhSdJqYi8fXvqWaN+J J5U4nwbXPsnLJlkNc96wyOkmDoMVxu9bi9IEYMpJpij2aTv2y8gokeWdimFXN6x0FNx04Druci8u nPvQu7/1PQDhBjPogiuuU6Y6FnOM3UEOIDrAtKeh6bJPkC4yYOlXy7kEkmho5TgmYHWyn3f/kRTv riBJ/K1AFUjRAjFhGV64l++td7dkmnq/X8ET75ti+w1s4FRpFqkD2m7pg5NxdsZphYIXAgMBAAGj QjBAMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIBBjAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/MB0GA1UdDgQWBBSP8Et/qC5FJK5N UPpjmove4t0bvDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFAAOCAQEAS0DbwFCq/sgM7/eWVEVJu5YACUGssxOGhigH M8pr5nS5ugAtrqQK0/Xx8Q+Kv3NnSoPHRHt44K9ubG8DKY4zOUXDjuS5V2yq/BKW7FPGLeQkbLmU Y/vcU2hnVj6DuM81IcPJaP7O2sJTqsyQiunwXUaMld16WCgaLx3ezQA3QY/tRG3XUyiXfvNnBB4V 14qWtNPeTCekTBtzc3b0F5nCH3oO4y0IrQocLP88q1UOD5F+NuvDV0m+4S4tfGCLw0FREyOdzvcy a5QBqJnnLDMfOjsl0oZAzjsshnjJYS8Uuu7bVW/fhO4FCU29KNhyztNiUGUe65KXgzHZs7XKR1g/ XzCCBUkwggQxoAMCAQICDBhL7k9eiTHfluW70TANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADBbMQswCQYDVQQGEwJC RTEZMBcGA1UEChMQR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBudi1zYTExMC8GA1UEAxMoR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBHQ0MgUjMg UGVyc29uYWxTaWduIDIgQ0EgMjAyMDAeFw0yMTAyMjIwNDQyMDRaFw0yMjA5MDEwODA5NDlaMIGM MQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTjESMBAGA1UECBMJS2FybmF0YWthMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlCYW5nYWxvcmUxFjAU BgNVBAoTDUJyb2FkY29tIEluYy4xFDASBgNVBAMTC0JvYiBNY01haG9uMScwJQYJKoZIhvcNAQkB Fhhib2IubWNtYWhvbkBicm9hZGNvbS5jb20wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIB AQDyY95HWFm48WhKUyFbAS9JxiDqBHBdAbgjx4iF46lkqZdVkIJ8pGfcXoGd10Vp9yL5VQevDAt/ A/Jh22uhSgKR9Almeux9xWGhG8cyZwcCwYrsMt84FqCgEQidT+7YGNdd9oKrjU7mFC7pAnnw+cGI d3NFryurgnNPwfEK0X7HwRsga5pM+Zelr/ZM8MkphE1hCvTuPGakNylOFhP+wKL8Bmhsq5tNIInw DrPV5EPUikwiGMDmkX8o6roGiUwyqAp8dMZKJZ/vS/aWEELV+gm21Btr7eqdAWyqm09McVpkM4th v/FOYcj8DeJr8MXmHW53gN2fv0BzQjqAdrdCBPNRAgMBAAGjggHZMIIB1TAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMC BaAwgaMGCCsGAQUFBwEBBIGWMIGTME4GCCsGAQUFBzAChkJodHRwOi8vc2VjdXJlLmdsb2JhbHNp Z24uY29tL2NhY2VydC9nc2djY3IzcGVyc29uYWxzaWduMmNhMjAyMC5jcnQwQQYIKwYBBQUHMAGG NWh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmdsb2JhbHNpZ24uY29tL2dzZ2NjcjNwZXJzb25hbHNpZ24yY2EyMDIwME0G A1UdIARGMEQwQgYKKwYBBAGgMgEoCjA0MDIGCCsGAQUFBwIBFiZodHRwczovL3d3dy5nbG9iYWxz aWduLmNvbS9yZXBvc2l0b3J5LzAJBgNVHRMEAjAAMEkGA1UdHwRCMEAwPqA8oDqGOGh0dHA6Ly9j cmwuZ2xvYmFsc2lnbi5jb20vZ3NnY2NyM3BlcnNvbmFsc2lnbjJjYTIwMjAuY3JsMCMGA1UdEQQc MBqBGGJvYi5tY21haG9uQGJyb2FkY29tLmNvbTATBgNVHSUEDDAKBggrBgEFBQcDBDAfBgNVHSME GDAWgBSWM9HmWBdbNHWKgVZk1b5I3qGPzzAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUpyXYr5rh8cZzkns+zXmMG1YkBk4w DQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQADggEBACfauRPak93nzbpn8UXqRZqg6iUZch/UfGj9flerMl4TlK5jWulz Y+rRg+iWkjiLk3O+kKu6GI8TLXB2rsoTnrHYij96Uad5/Ut3Q5F4S0ILgOWVU38l0VZIGGG0CzG1 eLUgN2zjLg++xJuzqijuKQCJb/3+il2MTJ8dcDaXuYcjg7Vt6+EtCBS1SGMVhOTH4Fp50yGWj8ZA bPF1uuJM+dGLJLheUizCr5J/OBEdENg+DSmrqoZ+kZd76iRaF2CkhboR2394Ft8lFlKQiU0q8lnR 9/kdZ0F0iCcUfhaLaGYWujW7N0LZ+rQuTfuPGLx9zZNeNMWSZi/Pc8vdCO7EnlIxggJtMIICaQIB ATBrMFsxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkJFMRkwFwYDVQQKExBHbG9iYWxTaWduIG52LXNhMTEwLwYDVQQDEyhH bG9iYWxTaWduIEdDQyBSMyBQZXJzb25hbFNpZ24gMiBDQSAyMDIwAgwYS+5PXokx35blu9EwDQYJ YIZIAWUDBAIBBQCggdQwLwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMSIEIJNa2TdEyEai3cHs71qm+ankEHQL/W2yTOEg GNWXz9LpMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTIxMDgwOTE4 NTcyM1owaQYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMVwwWjALBglghkgBZQMEASowCwYJYIZIAWUDBAEWMAsGCWCGSAFl AwQBAjAKBggqhkiG9w0DBzALBgkqhkiG9w0BAQowCwYJKoZIhvcNAQEHMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQCATAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQCZ59zpYtm6zVfJ+ZUTRWXj571BPOpca4c3xUtYfjnO2xgCjI3v/NIR rhDi8bWOXWXlHzUjkrZp6Y+tkKgQnwhjSAgAWGr7vdgr9F9gU25gqkEVJUcqiu0cpJA8gEIz1CP/ uh3++AEelopTJe0I/4AT/GbmWh0GjLR2o5/jj7CFzQyEPOZirs1ydZBY7LDZRfiFHs7+AOB9z1fx E+TWAjfPHzivKbZyRt9zH1Z6hFoRLxUsimbkth1YB+SxTv/lsdA5QIKGG6VQXQET5/G/BDar0Sio HtnHMrucSsNqNOjsqvbvzc0Mz9gVH2vDdM2vl/WapuP2nhaMkuwm0sYWK6up --000000000000a4ae7805c924f436--