From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oa1-x2c.google.com (mail-oa1-x2c.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C3C33B29E for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 20:48:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oa1-x2c.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1b060bce5b0so182146fac.3 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=broadcom.com; s=google; t=1689814134; x=1690418934; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+3EmkPODqdBW20PTZT56p175GOP99/wT+ePSyFKV85Q=; b=a4O4rVwLplEmZUKSRiwA8qtuqFo+AUAd6ug0LkjJygU2TkwiXSzC9oQeK2pL8X0pur +9PoEYLf2B4dKSygvkInX5PkiOQurdAikeGEfMQB8WjX8RLyoz41jscaSutRKcXqUq+K hh63q03ifBukUDHAtGyFwULtp4ux7DecCOmYM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1689814134; x=1690418934; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=+3EmkPODqdBW20PTZT56p175GOP99/wT+ePSyFKV85Q=; b=VOn0YmJh+HvMej72JXis3l67ubJ0Lyf1nNzozSAHgjciM8aWXFuKzaw1gO/JyXvxB1 ZM3FEVEFYDA+sQcrVhugu37GJUtRZlgkgufm91ZQl5Z3a0MBUTGTEME7tmdQ0pMHm9uR B38g8ODF/0kIFw+UKMX43ntJxfMQ7MbabPVQW67vAqJc03JNvEUWDV7ZZI+qxXQK5iPG WFgjR9Krr1A3UFZGPIJVM5lX5tdN2/Z99U+jXVS/BtRn6v02tUZ+DXa3sNefo6oMWCD2 0A7JU6XHp5/WV8eo3PxNdWn7a99h8NsbSql6aF00oueIUuQa+dE0yUzKKOfkR131v7eB JwiA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLYrjdDsBws7IkEtGc7MhcDFCFHSYsxha9Rlnlb4D5r6+x9zTEdT p5QfenWjqr3ZunZ91+bDnf82/3Z0V8b/JK758QezRrNCoCiCWEGhwg69uJpeXRm9wbbaeSypShv ZFYCRxU0BHQADQMexPHC9Cdlsj3Zoh4oe4lNLPvkW6Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlHSUsJqN+tGQtmmb+tjHHuJsr+MOGzByBeOMChdq1urLd85HhdCUbkQYtqJVk0hzijOi4BYirfxpw3elgwYGAk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:8a0:b0:1ba:b9ae:8d2c with SMTP id r32-20020a05687108a000b001bab9ae8d2cmr122662oaq.41.1689814134481; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:48:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Bob McMahon Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:48:42 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: Make-Wifi-fast , hiendtt@uit.edu.vn, s.aoyagi@chiba-u.jp, sekiya@faculty.chiba-u.jp, yuuki-ho@chiba-u.jp, Kien NGUYEN , duyld@uit.edu.vn, thanhnd@uit.edu.vn Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="0000000000004066330600e083ab" Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] An "Accurate" Platform for Investigating TCP Performance in Wi-Fi Networks X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 00:48:55 -0000 --0000000000004066330600e083ab Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000390c720600e083d6" --000000000000390c720600e083d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think making WiFi tech accessible to students is a very good thing. That students make mistakes is also a good thing. I understand the frustration though. I've recently rolled out a raspberry pi 4 crib sheet on how to build an L4S capable device. It's a fun project and comes in at around $100 U.S. Throw in some switches, USB WiFi cards, ethernet for control, a GPS hat for pulse per second, use iperf 2 and pyflows. All for less than $500. The expensive part is placing the RF under control but that's doable too - though likely in the few thousands of dollars and maybe just a bit more. The math is already done thanks to those studying molecular evolution . Bob On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:30=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Make-wifi-fast < make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > It is hard to contain my disappointment that a modern work on wifi, > that even mentions bufferbloat, could have missed our work on fixing > wifi (such as "ending the anomaly", now the default APIs in the linux > kernel), and make claims for the emulator that are so completely > wrong, and further claim that the behaviors matched a real world AP. > > re: > https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/futureinternet/futureinternet-15-00246/= article_deploy/futureinternet-15-00246.pdf?version=3D1689771540 > > Can I suggest strongly to the authors that they try to understand rate > vs range vs buffering, the intersection of the half duplex txop > infrastructure with multiple stations, the side effects of > aggregation, and other scheduling difficulties mininet does not come > even close to handling? > > 20 packet buffers?? A more typical number is much greater. > Test through walls or at distance? > > Here are 4 resources that might help deepen your understanding. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DRb-UnHDw02o&t=3D1532s (10 minutes here, > but do the whole thing) > https://bufferbloat-and-beyond.net/ > https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/ > https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/minstrel/ > > -- > Podcast: > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast --=20 This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted= =20 with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for=20 the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain= =20 information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy= =20 laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are=20 not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the=20 e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,=20 copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of= =20 this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error,= =20 please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and= =20 destroy any printed copy of it. --000000000000390c720600e083d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think making WiFi tech accessible to students=C2=A0is a = very good thing. That students make mistakes is also a good thing. I unders= tand the frustration though.

I've recently rolled out a raspberry pi 4 crib sheet on how to build= an L4S capable device. It's a fun project and comes in at around $100 = U.S.=C2=A0 Throw in some switches, USB WiFi cards, ethernet for control, a = GPS hat for pulse per second, use iperf 2 and pyflows. All for less than $5= 00.=C2=A0

The expensive part is placing=C2=A0the RF under control but that's doa= ble too - though likely=C2=A0in the few thousands of dollars and maybe just= a bit more. The math is already d= one thanks to those studying molecular evolution.

Bob

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Wed, Jul= 19, 2023 at 5:30=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Make-wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat= .net> wrote:
It is hard to contain my disappointment that a modern work on wifi,
that even mentions bufferbloat, could have missed our work on fixing
wifi (such as "ending the anomaly", now the default APIs in the l= inux
kernel), and make claims for the emulator that are so completely
wrong, and further claim that the behaviors matched a real world AP.

re: https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/f= utureinternet/futureinternet-15-00246/article_deploy/futureinternet-15-0024= 6.pdf?version=3D1689771540

Can I suggest strongly to the authors that they try to understand rate
vs range vs buffering, the intersection of the half duplex txop
infrastructure with multiple stations, the side effects of
aggregation, and other scheduling difficulties mininet does not come
even close to handling?

20 packet buffers?? A more typical number is much greater.
Test through walls or at distance?

Here are 4 resources that might help deepen your understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DRb-UnHD= w02o&t=3D1532s (10 minutes here,
but do the whole thing)
https://bufferbloat-and-beyond.net/
https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/
https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/minstrel/

--
Podcast: https://www.linked= in.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Make-wifi-fast mailing list
M= ake-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wif= i-fast

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