From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oo1-xc34.google.com (mail-oo1-xc34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47F0F3CB38 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2024 23:42:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-oo1-xc34.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-5986f4e838fso473630eaf.0 for ; Mon, 08 Jan 2024 20:42:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=broadcom.com; s=google; t=1704775322; x=1705380122; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hPDJqEzdRN8vyh+x5VqnkQ8hr2y1I2gX85GtJuUPoP8=; b=XIq3z/Qxy6qSyJ5LeJ40764dCFEpAlMWLZ5cgSmCID5vNYuW7J9MVoAXtTvo/m/u3l OTHQSYhW5UhYYuy2kEan1q9gy7FQMGa7z116x3o4o1UkV4Gb4fqst8/8PYksGq6s3KsH KYHxT1KjVrogzA/9VDfKfpfkyCWXLTOL1CGJI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704775322; x=1705380122; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=hPDJqEzdRN8vyh+x5VqnkQ8hr2y1I2gX85GtJuUPoP8=; b=HLWA1czKm58Kse8wWC+AZ8K7XjSnFuVN9JluiRCsbnW+5Wjo7Eu+T/bnPS+dg2AWL/ owH0jKI1i11xpSxuQI5HA5ym2n1XqzpbgzTpPyCCsAdTnhjn9bU4NSzs3OTedU4alrcW mM2SLlGRaRzE0ULf8Pgp3bhS4z0CXvXkDN21pE9Xd4z3/jyw+lxWcXfNDZCdOTlQ7brU oB280O7Ke+3RfwaPu6kSrvB8SoeP9yKWJxrSTVZzKp31Fl3T0vdQw+0hU+OncfeMigFX F531LzocLWn0iA+Yuj2LGWC7OgRJ+R0H4eI0UfLVL4r0OxMSPFPPRIA/bt7fND7Ea7e7 69aQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxzCNgRPJWllSYa5CutN0If2S+x6A8uT/gq1DQu+O274HzJUhCH 3x58NDzeRQ48rSQARjz2xsXHf1dPn79a7uOxbBrmoAoItpyFC0tdlrukMlW09Kz1m+3YYTv5IkY 5bFHRKyaERGLz60wbg8Hb4fESoZoz9cZCNHn5gigVRL0guzZM01dFbKwc2In75Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEEIgKBLUD46SoqnNrJbIJN726ge4EPz/KUeTfDVdcTu9V0yT5zhNa9AQ453Tu2PQpMcpCxVeEq7/osr4YJZ3I= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:1688:b0:596:2f40:3285 with SMTP id bc8-20020a056820168800b005962f403285mr3216299oob.1.1704775322272; Mon, 08 Jan 2024 20:42:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Bob McMahon Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 20:41:50 -0800 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: Make-Wifi-fast Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="0000000000008960e2060e7bef56" Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] a cheer up tweet for y'all X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2024 04:42:03 -0000 --0000000000008960e2060e7bef56 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000081a90e060e7beff4" --00000000000081a90e060e7beff4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What are you expecting from chip makers? HW ASIC guys are rarely good at writing sw and not so good at systems either. SW tends to be small, high velocity teams that make a lot of mistakes through iterations. Some get addicted to the velocity. ASICs tend to be low thousands of engineers paying attention to a plethora of details like signal integrity to get a $30M-50M mask right before spending another $100M+ for a run of millions. Completely different operating models. It's like comparing a container ship to a NASA X-43. Bob PS. I think we're missing EDCA analysis which is a BSS manager and AP thing. The default values really aren't optimized for anything and just are example settings. We also need active redundancy. Lots to be done still from what I can tell. On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 9:19=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via Make-wifi-fast < make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > https://twitter.com/RubenKelevra/status/1744406747953959140 > > Thread started here: > > https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/1744400465238818929 > > In retrospect, a lot of this project was fun, and seeing the results > like this, very satisfying, and I suppose, increasingly satisfying in > the years to come. But I am still burnt to a crisp about it, and > intensely frustrated with the behavior of the chipset makers. > > -- > 40 years of net history, a couple songs: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD9RGX6QFm5E > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast --=20 This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted= =20 with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for=20 the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain= =20 information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy= =20 laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are=20 not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the=20 e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,=20 copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of= =20 this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error,= =20 please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and= =20 destroy any printed copy of it. --00000000000081a90e060e7beff4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What are you expecting from chip makers?=C2=A0 HW ASIC guy= s are rarely good at writing sw and not so good at systems either. SW tends= to be small, high velocity teams that=C2=A0make a lot of mistakes through= =C2=A0iterations. Some get addicted to the=C2=A0velocity. ASICs tend=C2=A0t= o be low thousands of engineers paying attention to a plethora=C2=A0of deta= ils like signal integrity to get a $30M-50M mask right before=C2=A0spending= another $100M+ for a run of millions.=C2=A0 Completely=C2=A0 different ope= rating models. It's like comparing a container ship to a NASA X-43.=C2= =A0

Bob

PS. I think we're missing EDCA analysis which is = a BSS manager and AP thing.=C2=A0 The=C2=A0default values really aren't= optimized for anything and just are example settings. We also need active = redundancy. Lots to be done still from what I can tell.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2= 024 at 9:19=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via Make-wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
https://twitter.com/RubenKelevra/status/1= 744406747953959140

Thread started here:

https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/174440046523881= 8929

In retrospect, a lot of this project was fun, and seeing the results
like this, very satisfying, and I suppose, increasingly satisfying in
the years to come. But I am still burnt to a crisp about it, and
intensely frustrated with the behavior of the chipset makers.

--
40 years of net history, a couple songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD9RGX6QFm5E
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Make-wifi-fast mailing list
M= ake-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wif= i-fast

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