From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ot1-x32b.google.com (mail-ot1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC89D3B29E for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 22:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6b9defb36a2so242722a34.2 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 19:07:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=broadcom.com; s=google; t=1689818849; x=1690423649; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=F87wq+UXngr6cu2J33ICmvmvgk7dlkMWo0mxPZk4vQc=; b=VyaMmjL2kF8fYTZ/yXMiGLEceDujcxg3iw86G+IqlFQOo2MJqaltslB2o0CwUQesnn GRhL8JLx3hYa4YlQRkhV1wPRuicFuDxxhyqM7oiCbr//sC+/EsA0gYzP1Uk+sIcCwlDR uSpiUsJk0FP8ljRBVlGB8LAtj8CXM9po7AeMM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1689818849; x=1690423649; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=F87wq+UXngr6cu2J33ICmvmvgk7dlkMWo0mxPZk4vQc=; b=jSpysnZJvFeaEZaSXdNMkZKkUY9z+G8bJ7lc0DdlqVJO4GCOql2wm2zUC7qPIxxkgB uUOlecrofY4W28jytTHoPMxRnj1JBaNwlsb16wv+BXQmzm4M/jiDN31FU2Vn0Zez3acr 0G7oD9dqwv2G7bQceysJy6tP1JuHU9ALBHt4sVInWlazQ+pNzVzo6/pzDiJIFJIqkDVr OThLbKdFNdNZmp2lz3DZeHbxS62AbBSTSzs1xOiIySwqRW6sivUndCHMnLOfnvdCiT0u iKLoT7kjeoT6C5NZsTcZ521HS9qgv6Lfx3N0RQ1ieloj6FG3HT+ecYmtenGgH/b/xo65 Sdxg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLZSAOrz0b8JDXp3Tx+iDmA2NVvjmwQDMjLNkcWxXVrZmRG1fE8e AvaS2F3lBNT28Mg66D2Jkzm+4D2I572bQOnk8LBC8B/5ebawgkH/SSKUnOemz4jrfgmwBrQlALV 9FHemCbkkhn6hcyeKKS/OKQPhbfHDORZ1M6Wzq3KCFA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlF8YN+TkyujoDVZUBJzzzDqodcmooZ23DYIhrfmcZ0CqNW3YIE2GmXjkKOsf4vgsMJ+eoPzghU3ca4+65uETvk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:f70e:b0:1b0:2fc3:b4f1 with SMTP id ej14-20020a056870f70e00b001b02fc3b4f1mr344074oab.9.1689818848764; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 19:07:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Bob McMahon Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 19:07:14 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: Make-Wifi-fast , hiendtt@uit.edu.vn, s.aoyagi@chiba-u.jp, sekiya@faculty.chiba-u.jp, yuuki-ho@chiba-u.jp, Kien NGUYEN , duyld@uit.edu.vn, thanhnd@uit.edu.vn Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="0000000000003dbbab0600e19caf" Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] An "Accurate" Platform for Investigating TCP Performance in Wi-Fi Networks X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:07:29 -0000 --0000000000003dbbab0600e19caf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000375c120600e19c00" --000000000000375c120600e19c00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable yeah, hoping for more can for sure cause frustration when things aren't where we'd like them to be or where we think they should be. I was told early in my career by our company leadership, "See the world as it is, not as you want it to be." I never really liked that so I modified it a bit to, "See the world as it is and help towards making it what you know it can become." Then we march along on that journey and never finish so frustration will be our companion at times ;) Bob On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 6:55=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht wro= te: > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 6:48=E2=80=AFPM Bob McMahon > wrote: > > > > I think making WiFi tech accessible to students is a very good thing. > That students make mistakes is also a good thing. > > https://github.com/open-sdr/openwifi is making half decent progress. > > >I understand the frustration though. > > I had opened that paper hoping for something more. > > > > > I've recently rolled out a raspberry pi 4 crib sheet on how to build an > L4S capable device. It's a fun project and comes in at around $100 U.S. > Throw in some switches, USB WiFi cards, ethernet for control, a GPS hat f= or > pulse per second, use iperf 2 and pyflows. All for less than $500. > > > > The expensive part is placing the RF under control but that's doable to= o > - though likely in the few thousands of dollars and maybe just a bit more= . > The math is already done thanks to those studying molecular evolution. > > That FPGA above looks promising. > > > > > Bob > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:30=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Make-wifi-fast < > make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > >> It is hard to contain my disappointment that a modern work on wifi, > >> that even mentions bufferbloat, could have missed our work on fixing > >> wifi (such as "ending the anomaly", now the default APIs in the linux > >> kernel), and make claims for the emulator that are so completely > >> wrong, and further claim that the behaviors matched a real world AP. > >> > >> re: > https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/futureinternet/futureinternet-15-00246/= article_deploy/futureinternet-15-00246.pdf?version=3D1689771540 > >> > >> Can I suggest strongly to the authors that they try to understand rate > >> vs range vs buffering, the intersection of the half duplex txop > >> infrastructure with multiple stations, the side effects of > >> aggregation, and other scheduling difficulties mininet does not come > >> even close to handling? > >> > >> 20 packet buffers?? A more typical number is much greater. > >> Test through walls or at distance? > >> > >> Here are 4 resources that might help deepen your understanding. > >> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DRb-UnHDw02o&t=3D1532s (10 minutes he= re, > >> but do the whole thing) > >> https://bufferbloat-and-beyond.net/ > >> https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/ > >> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/minstrel/ > >> > >> -- > >> Podcast: > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/ > >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Make-wifi-fast mailing list > >> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast > > > > > > This electronic communication and the information and any files > transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed an= d > may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protect= ed > by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. = If > you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for deliveri= ng > the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any us= e, > copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of > this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, > please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and > destroy any printed copy of it. > > > > -- > Podcast: > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > --=20 This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted= =20 with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for=20 the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain= =20 information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy= =20 laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are=20 not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the=20 e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,=20 copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of= =20 this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error,= =20 please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and= =20 destroy any printed copy of it. --000000000000375c120600e19c00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
yeah, hoping for more can for sure cause=C2=A0frustration = when things aren't where we'd like them to be or where we think the= y should be.=C2=A0 I was told early=C2=A0in my career by our company leader= ship, "See the world as it is, not as you want it to be."=C2=A0 I= never really liked that so I modified it a bit to, "See the world as = it is and help towards making it what you know it can become." Then we= march along on that journey and never finish so frustration will be our=C2= =A0companion at times ;)

Bob

On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 6:55=E2=80=AFPM = Dave Taht <dave= .taht@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 6:48=E2=80=AFPM Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broad= com.com> wrote:
>
> I think making WiFi tech accessible to students is a very good thing. = That students make mistakes is also a good thing.

https://github.com/open-sdr/openwifi is making half decent = progress.

>I understand the frustration though.

I had opened that paper hoping for something more.

>
> I've recently rolled out a raspberry pi 4 crib sheet on how to bui= ld an L4S capable device. It's a fun project and comes in at around $10= 0 U.S.=C2=A0 Throw in some switches, USB WiFi cards, ethernet for control, = a GPS hat for pulse per second, use iperf 2 and pyflows. All for less than = $500.
>
> The expensive part is placing the RF under control but that's doab= le too - though likely in the few thousands of dollars and maybe just a bit= more. The math is already done thanks to those studying molecular evolutio= n.

That FPGA above looks promising.

>
> Bob
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:30=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Make-wifi-fast &= lt;make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> It is hard to contain my disappointment that a modern work on wifi= ,
>> that even mentions bufferbloat, could have missed our work on fixi= ng
>> wifi (such as "ending the anomaly", now the default APIs= in the linux
>> kernel), and make claims for the emulator that are so completely >> wrong, and further claim that the behaviors matched a real world A= P.
>>
>> re: https://mdpi-res.com/d_att= achment/futureinternet/futureinternet-15-00246/article_deploy/futureinterne= t-15-00246.pdf?version=3D1689771540
>>
>> Can I suggest strongly to the authors that they try to understand = rate
>> vs range vs buffering, the intersection of the half duplex txop >> infrastructure with multiple stations, the side effects of
>> aggregation, and other scheduling difficulties mininet does not co= me
>> even close to handling?
>>
>> 20 packet buffers?? A more typical number is much greater.
>> Test through walls or at distance?
>>
>> Here are 4 resources that might help deepen your understanding. >>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= =3DRb-UnHDw02o&t=3D1532s (10 minutes here,
>> but do the whole thing)
>> https://bufferbloat-and-beyond.net/
>> https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness= /
>> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/minstrel/
>>
>> --
>> Podcast: https://w= ww.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/
>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
>> _______________________________________________
>> Make-wifi-fast mailing list
>> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo= /make-wifi-fast
>
>
> This electronic communication and the information and any files transm= itted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely = for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may con= tain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by pri= vacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you a= re not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the = e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, cop= ying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this= e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, pleas= e return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destro= y any printed copy of it.



--
Podcast: https://www.linked= in.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos

This ele= ctronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it= , or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use o= f the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain informat= ion that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or= otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the in= tended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the= intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distrib= uting, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is st= rictly prohibited. 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