From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com (mail-ej1-x62d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0106E3B2A4 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 2021 00:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id hs10so22951581ejc.0 for ; Sat, 07 Aug 2021 21:38:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=broadcom.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=u0FghS8cK+FxFOKTKsr0/ZEr685gdEWxmHuPnD4KNwo=; b=B2rQE4W5IJGw/lSsoABHa+Dm6VfxqxQkNcswlzOTUbLi6ou3Y9UN0gcP4J/qDqDr4w IRqDoto3opdSCnJeDwHNloJY37mVG7ophkmaYbu3QqylQSVhf3ndFqqKiBsbgfdPZTVp eCq67PWkulrtaUvxjd5f3IAL5hnbqK4eBf9Vo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=u0FghS8cK+FxFOKTKsr0/ZEr685gdEWxmHuPnD4KNwo=; b=OVeY0saH633bekXwQgON60rvH5MeXUO1DbB8cvGFTyfub2fShCUDGp2j047srTtP9i GTBBTVhM0CdAaeYskII6HS+ecb7419LCkUrRhVp8Qm+giNNwMro2f1j+/Li3UkFb+/Ic ZU2Cjm3uuAjfSOy5KtBp4fPm1b0p/iKQ6eYY30/wtevuxQ8CJe7dQ3ORnhCjjmV4yCr8 BIoMCLIgcLM3URDiOQaEO53g1hwTsn8jzVoARV6HNh1bZMUZV9E7gNokAcIlQqspbPN4 oFiOq178Hbh3Dp0Q4TjxMvCFZggmeCuHyrgCZOhXho1Ah1wpWExZ180oz0zgDuo+clPR cMPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530GuGCORujVlN2WABj+PLzBWqBo4Je0xQuekhfBk+UPl8hvHzSQ SUnunXJb0cyz1i9W8KIk4lveeksxsCHYPLnBM128ar3kcd9NhFgAJTAUc5ekYdThgMN0yo1pKx7 XQ0raVlYUwpQX6FdB+fwTkvmA9iLmKFBQWZE4pNxDDSipeYE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy4+Mq2T4qJ11rdmViv8ZOLW79720RiYvD8YudOsdhKAm+LdZPcrqMnlYmJtQvXx5GIzUuJw/JpO22QlmrJ/8g= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:4e85:: with SMTP id v5mr16561410eju.159.1628397491561; Sat, 07 Aug 2021 21:38:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1625188609.32718319@apps.rackspace.com> <989de0c1-e06c-cda9-ebe6-1f33df8a4c24@candelatech.com> <1625773080.94974089@apps.rackspace.com> <22144.1628381018@localhost> In-Reply-To: <22144.1628381018@localhost> From: Bob McMahon Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 21:38:00 -0700 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: Make-Wifi-fast Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="0000000000000e824105c904d63e" Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cake] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2021 04:38:13 -0000 --0000000000000e824105c904d63e Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000a02cd05c904d615" --0000000000000a02cd05c904d615 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" "This means that the wifi speed/power selection gets all all confused, several times per minute." That's also why things like a fixed butler matrix really isn't very good. The goal is to be able to change the channel conditions sub second and maybe in the order of 10 milliseconds. Bob On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 5:03 PM Michael Richardson wrote: > > {cutting some of the lists} > > David Lang wrote: > > If you are going to setup a test environment for wifi, you need to > include > > the ability to make a fe cases that only happen with RF, not with > wired > > networks and are commonly overlooked > > Also, > > 1) some 802.11g sender can't hear the 802.11b sender, so does not back off > on > using all the channels. > > 2) some 802.11g TV-over-wifi product intentionally does not back off, > because > that would break the TV signal. This is happening 100m in the next > household, and having a human (water bag) standing between the two > households improves the situation. So on each commercial break, the > local wifi improves because the humans next door go to the washroom. > > This means that the wifi speed/power selection gets all all confused, > several times per minute. > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh > networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT > architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on > rails [ > > > > > > > > > -- This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any printed copy of it. --0000000000000a02cd05c904d615 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"This means that the wifi speed/power selection gets = all all confused, several times per minute."

That's also wh= y things like a fixed butler matrix really isn't very good. The goal is= to be able to change the channel conditions sub second and maybe in the or= der of 10 milliseconds.

Bob

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 5:03 PM Mic= hael Richardson <m= cr@sandelman.ca> wrote:

{cutting some of the lists}

David Lang <david@lan= g.hm> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > If you are going to setup a test environment for wifi, y= ou need to include
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > the ability to make a fe cases that only happen with RF,= not with wired
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > networks and are commonly overlooked

Also,

1) some 802.11g sender can't hear the 802.11b sender, so does not back = off on
=C2=A0 =C2=A0using all the channels.

2) some 802.11g TV-over-wifi product intentionally does not back off, becau= se
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that would break the TV signal.=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is happening = 100m in the next
=C2=A0 =C2=A0household, and having a human (water bag) standing between the= two
=C2=A0 =C2=A0households improves the situation.=C2=A0 So on each commercial= break, the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0local wifi improves because the humans next door go to the was= hroom.

This means that the wifi speed/power selection gets all all confused,
several times per minute.

--
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Never tell me the o= dds!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| ipv6 me= sh networks [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IoT architect=C2=A0 =C2=A0[
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= mcr@sandelman.ca=C2=A0 http://www.sandelman.ca/=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0ruby on rails=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [









This ele= ctronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it= , or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use o= f the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain informat= ion that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or= otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the in= tended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the= intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distrib= uting, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is st= rictly prohibited. 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