From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com (mail-wr1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E5623CB38 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 17:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id w12so4684694wro.5 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:15:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=broadcom.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kF9adOwqEvVETErlPxwbz/Sfrjev9vT5ysIuZk8g9Ow=; b=LXRzHUdm16Kv7GF6lvlGgivlQlnXpQXxLUoHVCCkrEFv3UNO11n8TA7qB85xj5fTkd BqD3vUgVUXmMW7Wbq1XK2Anej2AAJn/8WGXAWwfEkiW+rOaTs3gIedE2+qyy22FgwW4K 94IdWfBdnWaUxKzqHMxcs52ZitirsyLakdDPM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kF9adOwqEvVETErlPxwbz/Sfrjev9vT5ysIuZk8g9Ow=; b=FSzOi44ZSK6si9HAqAxMxD6Bqrb1BGgdwVRr38iQrWte39am3QSONmxV7QHte2P3UD JXl4QRBjfcVCvvpl4zGFI7wNcQYwn5GywnHh9cBgBhD9t/osoeyWcFc6+1N1raips6fN oo+2x6BkuTt5ZElbPz1b+iLDEqCjGeC2ioprpD+xSZeEQTNGQdRmAXkX8a1qF7dKzqys gXxR9WNIgqsAePg17ttc2Rk9QVeQR2+jRoxFgkvkCE3NPSEJxGTqM/0k7XgwFv522N3n 9ExLm7A2Kui+nQedqwA1M5yzZBAxu/d+G+e9gUaLezhQ7aQPoJmPippm0RG+C3N6lvQv ykgA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX0mkdY9zqdVeymG9Zno1s7A8nYwkCqFUpwg01aLNWlVp5wNi6h WfEa2fhx+KdiaZNxkfta0e8EylnCDrN6tj7SmdCF6g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy68jC4QQRU7KKOs122BKzvbAuK8wWwBb3U7pRRs4N7CISGP8di9HR5oRB1LSUFmu+Le1o7HOqYbMp2Xt3J/+w= X-Received: by 2002:adf:9c81:: with SMTP id d1mr4474748wre.123.1569618939439; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:15:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1569546887.128430291@apps.rackspace.com> In-Reply-To: <1569546887.128430291@apps.rackspace.com> From: Bob McMahon Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:15:27 -0700 Message-ID: To: "David P. Reed" Cc: Dave Taht , Make-Wifi-fast Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000051be7b05938f63d5" Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] 20 year anniversary of wifi X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 21:15:40 -0000 --00000000000051be7b05938f63d5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi David, Thanks for sharing this information. I find it interesting. Bob On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 6:14 PM David P. Reed wrote: > A small correction/enhancement to the note from Teresa Meng. Maybe it is > because I'm much older than her. > > The U-NII band opening up in 1997 was NOT the first move by the USG to > create open communications. The first move was the creation of enhancemen= ts > to Part 15, and the allowance of spread-spectrum modes (FHSS and DSSS) on > 2.4 GHz ISM band under Part 15. > > The core person involved in that Part 15 expansion was Dr. Michael Marcus > (a good friend of mine) who at the time worked for the FCC in its Office = of > Engineering and Technology. (his website is here > http://www.marcus-spectrum.com/). > > Dr. Meng was not around at the time, so I'm not surprised she isn't aware > of the history before she became involved in her work. FHSS and DSSS mod= es > didn't require the advanced digital modulation mechanisms she refers to, > which enabled OFDM (OFDM requires the fourier transform, which can only > practically be done algorithmically). > > The U-NII band (5 GHz) was the result of major efforts, led mostly on the > political side by Apple Computer Inc. and in particular Jim Lovette, an > engineer in Apple's advanced engineering, many years earlier, in 1990. Ji= m, > along with others at Apple, and even with some support from Lotus, where = I > was VP and Chief Scientist, made the case that we needed much more open a= nd > freely usable spectrum than the 2.4 GHz and 900 Mhz spectrum that was > already in use. ( > https://books.google.com/books?id=3DGTwEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=3DPT5&ots=3DCAM_c7p1= qh&dq=3DJim%20Lovette%20Apple%20radio&pg=3DPT5#v=3Donepage&q=3DJim%20Lovett= e%20Apple%20radio&f=3Dfalse > ) > > I knew many of the folks who built 802.11b (prior to U-NII band) and prio= r > to the creation of the WiFi "cartel" who created the brand name WiFi. Thi= s > is why I'm annoyed at the attempt to make 1999 its "birth". That's just > false. It was NOT created by an industry cartel. > > > > On Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:32pm, "Dave Taht" > said: > > > Great article, bob, thx! > > > > People *wanted* wireless freedom. Everybody had a laptop and a modem, > > and a pcmcia slot. One business model that lasted only briefly was > > coffee shops renting pcmcia cards..... > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:10 PM Bob McMahon > wrote: > >> > >> For what it's worth, Teresa Meng (founder of Atheros) said in 2004 > >> > >> https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3D984469 > >> > >> "TM: There are three basic ingredients in the technology. The first is > definitely > >> signal processing. In the past two decades a lot of research and > industry > >> achievements have made it possible for us to understand how to transmi= t > signals > >> through a wireless medium, based on sophisticated signal processing > algorithms. > >> > >> Second, in the late =E2=80=9990s, it became possible to implement giga= hertz RF > >> circuits using digital CMOS technology=E2=80=94the predominant technol= ogy that > >> people have been using for implementing microprocessors and memory. > >> > >> The third ingredient is the opening up of the unlicensed band. Before > 1997, for > >> example, a carrier would have to pay a lot of money=E2=80=94in the > billion-dollar > >> range=E2=80=94to the government to have the right to use a bandwidth o= f several > >> megahertz for their cellphone service. In 1997, the U.S. government > opened up the > >> 5GHz UNII band that allows unlicensed users=E2=80=94everybody in the U= nited > >> States=E2=80=94to use up to 550 megahertz of bandwidth, as long as the= y follow > the > >> rules. > >> > >> With the availability of wide bandwidth and CMOS technology being > advanced enough > >> to process the bandwidth at this frequency, and with the signal > processing > >> know-how=E2=80=94all this created what I call the =E2=80=9Cwireless re= volution=E2=80=9D > >> that freed us from the previous notion that wireless communication is > expensive, > >> inherently constrained by a low data-rate, and is scarce. Bandwidth > used to be a > >> very scarce commodity, which is not true anymore with the opening up o= f > >> unlicensed bands. This is the path Atheros would like to lead: to chan= ge > >> people=E2=80=99s view of wireless service from tele-communication to m= ore of a > >> data-communication notion where equipment can be updated very quickly > and > >> inexpensively, and basically provide a level field for competition." > >> > >> Bob > >> > >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:33 PM David Lang wrote: > >>> > >>> I had some homerf devices, they were signficantly slower than 802.11b > but they > >>> were also far cheaper (they were ~$150 for a card where 802.11b were > ~$800 each) > >>> > >>> a few years later the 'junk' vendors started producing 802.11b > devices, the > >>> prices dropped, and they caught on. > >>> > >>> David Lang > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, 16 Sep 2019, Dave Taht wrote: > >>> > >>> > Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 23:46:38 +0100 > >>> > From: Dave Taht > >>> > To: Make-Wifi-fast > >>> > Subject: [Make-wifi-fast] 20 year anniversary of wifi > >>> > > >>> > I remember experimenting with "homeRF". I cannot remember for the > life > >>> > of me what it was like. > >>> > > >>> > and to me, why wifi took off was that it had a strong investment by > >>> > apple AND heavy interest from the geek community, with a couple > >>> > drivers that actually worked, and because of the coffee shop > >>> > phenomenon.... > >>> > > >>> > Shure, everything else here was important, too: > >>> > > >>> > https://www.wired.com/story/how-wi-fi-almost-didnt-happen/ > >>> > -- > >>> > > >>> > Dave T=C3=A4ht > >>> > CTO, TekLibre, LLC > >>> > http://www.teklibre.com > >>> > Tel: 1-831-205-9740 > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > >>> > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast____________________= ___________________________ > >>> Make-wifi-fast mailing list > >>> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > CTO, TekLibre, LLC > > http://www.teklibre.com > > Tel: 1-831-205-9740 > > _______________________________________________ > > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast > > > --00000000000051be7b05938f63d5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi David,

Thanks for sharing this information. I f= ind it interesting.

Bob

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 6:14 PM David P= . Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com&g= t; wrote:
A smal= l correction/enhancement to the note from Teresa Meng. Maybe it is because = I'm much older than her.

The U-NII band opening up in 1997 was NOT the first move by the USG to crea= te open communications. The first move was the creation of enhancements to = Part 15, and the allowance of spread-spectrum modes (FHSS and DSSS) on 2.4 = GHz ISM band under Part 15.

The core person involved in that Part 15 expansion was Dr. Michael Marcus (= a good friend of mine) who at the time worked for the FCC in its Office of = Engineering and Technology. (his website is here http://www.marcus-sp= ectrum.com/).

Dr. Meng was not around at the time, so I'm not surprised she isn't= aware of the history before she became involved in her work.=C2=A0 FHSS an= d DSSS modes didn't require the advanced digital modulation mechanisms = she refers to, which enabled OFDM (OFDM requires the fourier transform, whi= ch can only practically be done algorithmically).

The U-NII band (5 GHz) was the result of major efforts, led mostly on the p= olitical side by Apple Computer Inc. and in particular Jim Lovette, an engi= neer in Apple's advanced engineering, many years earlier, in 1990. Jim,= along with others at Apple, and even with some support from Lotus, where I= was VP and Chief Scientist, made the case that we needed much more open an= d freely usable spectrum than the 2.4 GHz and 900 Mhz spectrum that was alr= eady in use.=C2=A0 (https://books.google.com/books?= id=3DGTwEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=3DPT5&ots=3DCAM_c7p1qh&dq=3DJim%20Lovette= %20Apple%20radio&pg=3DPT5#v=3Donepage&q=3DJim%20Lovette%20Apple%20r= adio&f=3Dfalse)

I knew many of the folks who built 802.11b (prior to U-NII band) and prior = to the creation of the WiFi "cartel" who created the brand name W= iFi. This is why I'm annoyed at the attempt to make 1999 its "birt= h". That's just false. It was NOT created by an industry cartel. <= br>


On Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:32pm, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com&g= t; said:

> Great article, bob, thx!
>
> People *wanted* wireless freedom. Everybody had a laptop and a modem,<= br> > and a pcmcia slot. One business model that lasted only briefly was
> coffee shops renting pcmcia cards.....
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:10 PM Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com> w= rote:
>>
>> For what it's worth, Teresa Meng (founder of Atheros) said in = 2004
>>
>> https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3D984469
>>
>> "TM: There are three basic ingredients in the technology. The= first is definitely
>> signal processing. In the past two decades a lot of research and i= ndustry
>> achievements have made it possible for us to understand how to tra= nsmit signals
>> through a wireless medium, based on sophisticated signal processin= g algorithms.
>>
>> Second, in the late =E2=80=9990s, it became possible to implement = gigahertz RF
>> circuits using digital CMOS technology=E2=80=94the predominant tec= hnology that
>> people have been using for implementing microprocessors and memory= .
>>
>> The third ingredient is the opening up of the unlicensed band. Bef= ore 1997, for
>> example, a carrier would have to pay a lot of money=E2=80=94in the= billion-dollar
>> range=E2=80=94to the government to have the right to use a bandwid= th of several
>> megahertz for their cellphone service. In 1997, the U.S. governmen= t opened up the
>> 5GHz UNII band that allows unlicensed users=E2=80=94everybody in t= he United
>> States=E2=80=94to use up to 550 megahertz of bandwidth, as long as= they follow the
>> rules.
>>
>> With the availability of wide bandwidth and CMOS technology being = advanced enough
>> to process the bandwidth at this frequency, and with the signal pr= ocessing
>> know-how=E2=80=94all this created what I call the =E2=80=9Cwireles= s revolution=E2=80=9D
>> that freed us from the previous notion that wireless communication= is expensive,
>> inherently constrained by a low data-rate, and is scarce. Bandwidt= h used to be a
>> very scarce commodity, which is not true anymore with the opening = up of
>> unlicensed bands. This is the path Atheros would like to lead: to = change
>> people=E2=80=99s view of wireless service from tele-communication = to more of a
>> data-communication notion where equipment can be updated very quic= kly and
>> inexpensively, and basically provide a level field for competition= ."
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:33 PM David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had some homerf devices, they were signficantly slower than = 802.11b but they
>>> were also far cheaper (they were ~$150 for a card where 802.11= b were ~$800 each)
>>>
>>> a few years later the 'junk' vendors started producing= 802.11b devices, the
>>> prices dropped, and they caught on.
>>>
>>> David Lang
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 16 Sep 2019, Dave Taht wrote:
>>>
>>> > Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 23:46:38 +0100
>>> > From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>>> > To: Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.ne= t>
>>> > Subject: [Make-wifi-fast] 20 year anniversary of wifi
>>> >
>>> > I remember experimenting with "homeRF". I canno= t remember for the life
>>> > of me what it was like.
>>> >
>>> > and to me, why wifi took off was that it had a strong inv= estment by
>>> > apple AND heavy interest from the geek community, with a = couple
>>> > drivers that actually worked, and because of the coffee s= hop
>>> > phenomenon....
>>> >
>>> > Shure, everything else here was important, too:
>>> >
>>> > https://www.wired.com/st= ory/how-wi-fi-almost-didnt-happen/
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > Dave T=C3=A4ht
>>> > CTO, TekLibre, LLC
>>> > http://www.teklibre.com
>>> > Tel: 1-831-205-9740
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Make-wifi-fast mailing list
>>> > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast____= ___________________________________________
>>> Make-wifi-fast mailing list
>>> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/list= info/make-wifi-fast
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dave T=C3=A4ht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> _______________________________________________
> Make-wifi-fast mailing list
> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/ma= ke-wifi-fast


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