From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-vk0-x235.google.com (mail-vk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B20FD3B25D for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2016 16:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x235.google.com with SMTP id 16so133501877vko.2 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:09:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5LMZ0d4HCy/RjKw6uJgXUkl7EBYpFaYESzO9t2AsX7c=; b=yFg/N2Xykmi8S7mhOlbxtdbWlHcu+bOz00YyYuG943QOEn/n4lP8YlfKKQQ3Zis6fj ElBu0JbhUc50qI3kLEO45k94DiVLQoPTvOVWC2fZ3RIjDSIiXuAU3wPYGphy13WJHPW+ oPidP+gH2vMTn3dl1tOt+9l30irUHoihfmtB0RbM+idqCtI8RlFd4g3QlaGhPMffl0cl c0ZRq6D1JfjQF1l6vEkWJwSMT0puB/9OL4CmP06BIXrjdB9A8/sGx5cBCefNIk2DeesY +BSemcn+hEBw1y3xcKFE1Dv37uWneuCjxwkjPiq0Qero24QwzbCwKTyg9Y9oTwH+xu5T DdLA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5LMZ0d4HCy/RjKw6uJgXUkl7EBYpFaYESzO9t2AsX7c=; b=afkT4JSs9Z9v9riU9TclQtFjKiPwZT3MsyB4IiKLLrQX6sXbmrSKJ3OCu/5B9dugjs BI1HWGLV4gk3t1lxZPLwWnn/Ps9q3WUlZ7l+GjTnITh5Z6PxcFd4MboFahNGliVWwjhh WWbuzBYYS0mHKYKI6ipzHDksiulpuo5q9nw0LPhmlxVd0737r+e5SGnOMRwM9tnmUlxu 849ZxMiwRmP3aElhijrRR/km5OL6Iheidqhssf42k3uDEFc77GXWYyC/tS5MOmp7eOzH TSE6wei/cVrHbCwGyRDD5bIeQyPQZpcG6s87lLUNCytv4FoeDtLe7QpvzL0EF5r4KDc+ qhIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwNQeiXQ3jndYG90zeKjSUqGvjLj+qo/JPLy/X8NNJrTPAKkBXoyv2jCpl29xnBZlbGVpGMXlhAbbgUGqg== X-Received: by 10.31.83.67 with SMTP id h64mr12362059vkb.27.1473710975976; Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:09:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.117.214 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:09:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Aaron Wood Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:09:35 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jon Pike Cc: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114e60e0398aac053c551330 Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] Questions from the Windows world, IQrouter, etc X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 20:09:36 -0000 --001a114e60e0398aac053c551330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 This looks like it's using the same approach as the sqm_scripts (which does rate-limiting and uses fq_codel), based on an initial sampling of the interface rate, and the periodic measurements which are used to modify the sqm settings. I would be surprised if it didn't do better than most stock routers. What this doesn't do is make wifi faster/better. It makes the connection to the ISP behave better, and if that's the bottleneck that you have, then that's enough. But uploads where wifi is the bottleneck aren't going to get much better. The adapter/drivers make a big difference (radio quality, antenna quality, driver buffer depth/management). By default, most routers seem to be using a fixed size buffer in terms of the number of packets, and somehow that ended up at 1000 packets. That means that if wifi is the bottleneck, there's: ~120ms of latency in the buffer at 100Mbps ~250ms of latency at 50Mbps ~0.5 sec of latency at 25 Mbps ~1.2 sec at 10Mbps etc. -Aaron On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Jon Pike wrote: > Have been watching and appriciating all the progress going on... wish I > had a better understanding and better coding skills to contribute somehow. > > Don't know if this is the best place to bring it up, I certainly don't > want to get in the way of Real Work going on... but on my last few visits > to DSLreports Speed test page, I've seen an ad for the IQrouter... > http://evenroute.com/ > > This new? Any connection with FQ-Codel, etc? By the definition, sounds > like they may be rolling their own, with the dynamic measuring and > adjusting. At the very least it's a prominent and pretty well described > mention of Bufferbloat problems and what can fix them. Apologies if this > is old news, but I hadn't seen them or the ad before. It's also > interesting in that I've been looking for a good router upgrade, and > looking at TP-LINK C5 and C7s... and the IQrouter looks exactly like a > C5, except for the N900 on the right edge. (rather than AC1200) Must have > lucked into a huge warehouse of early models? > > A noobish question I have, is how much influence does the client side of > a network have on the overall link quality? Have been setting up a few > wifi connections in the house, and have noticed drastic differences in the > amount of bloat between two PC's. Two different USB dongles, and of > course two different positions. Have yet to swap the two adapters, which > would make it a fair test. But I wondered how much influence the > adapter/driver has on overall flow? And yes, these are Windows machines, > which brings up another question, how much difference might there be in a > Linux/Win setup, vs Linux/Linux? Or, is that a territory that needs to be > explored? > > In that case, perhaps someone can point me to an equivalent to "FLENT for > Dummies". > > _______________________________________________ > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast > > --001a114e60e0398aac053c551330 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This looks like it's using the same approach as the sq= m_scripts (which does rate-limiting and uses fq_codel), based on an initial= sampling of the interface rate, and the periodic measurements which are us= ed to modify the sqm settings.=C2=A0 I would be surprised if it didn't = do better than most stock routers.

What this doesn't= do is make wifi faster/better.=C2=A0 It makes the connection to the ISP be= have better, and if that's the bottleneck that you have, then that'= s enough.=C2=A0 But uploads where wifi is the bottleneck aren't going t= o get much better.=C2=A0 The adapter/drivers make a big difference (radio q= uality, antenna quality, driver buffer depth/management). =C2=A0
=
By default, most routers seem to be using a fixed size buffe= r in terms of the number of packets, and somehow that ended up at 1000 pack= ets.=C2=A0 That means that if wifi is the bottleneck, there's:

~120ms of latency in the buffer at 100Mbps
~250m= s of latency at 50Mbps
~0.5 sec of latency at 25 Mbps
~= 1.2 sec at 10Mbps
etc.

-Aaron

On Mon, Sep 12, = 2016 at 10:47 AM, Jon Pike <jonpike54@gmail.com> wrote:

Have been watching and appri= ciating all the progress going on...=C2=A0=C2=A0wish I had a better underst= anding and better coding skills to contribute somehow.

Don't know if this is the best place to bring it up,=C2= =A0 I certainly don't want to get in the way of Real Work going on...= =C2=A0 but on my last few visits to DSLreports=C2=A0 Speed test page, I'= ;ve seen an ad for the IQrouter...=C2=A0 http://evenroute.com/

This new?=C2=A0 Any connection with FQ-Codel,=C2=A0 etc?=C2= =A0 By the definition, sounds like they may be rolling their own,=C2=A0 wit= h the dynamic measuring and adjusting.=C2=A0 At the very least it's a p= rominent and pretty well described mention of Bufferbloat problems and what= can fix them.=C2=A0 Apologies if this is old news, but I hadn't seen t= hem or the ad before.=C2=A0 It's also interesting in that I've been= looking for a good router upgrade,=C2=A0 and looking at TP-LINK C5 and C7s= ...=C2=A0 and the IQrouter looks exactly like a C5,=C2=A0 except for the N9= 00 on the right edge. (rather than AC1200)=C2=A0 Must have lucked into a hu= ge warehouse of early models?

A noobish question I have,=C2=A0 is how much influence does = the client side of a network have on the overall link quality?=C2=A0 Have b= een setting up a few wifi connections in the house,=C2=A0 and have noticed = drastic differences in the amount of bloat between two PC's.=C2=A0 Two = different USB dongles,=C2=A0 and of course two different positions.=C2=A0 H= ave yet to swap the two adapters, which would make it a fair test.=C2=A0 Bu= t I wondered how much influence the adapter/driver has on overall flow?=C2= =A0 And yes,=C2=A0 these are Windows machines, which brings up another ques= tion, how much difference might there be in a Linux/Win setup, vs Linux/Lin= ux?=C2=A0 Or, is that a territory that needs to be explored?

In that case,=C2=A0 perhaps someone can point me to an equiv= alent to "FLENT for Dummies".


_______________________________________________
Make-wifi-fast mailing list
Make-wifi-fast@list= s.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/mak= e-wifi-fast


--001a114e60e0398aac053c551330--