From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x236.google.com (mail-oi1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B9143B2A4 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2022 00:48:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-oi1-x236.google.com with SMTP id j124so6906572oih.12 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 21:48:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qIjYlxQepjsI1TLuYtNN/TugZJrASf4D0MAXisR/YVQ=; b=luPCjtANkZyVchQ6Q5N9HhkZ+yxcAWe7cosGozGpfTYTJckHw2YlhucFmDw9GXdUPG Z1CUU1sZRfoAYgV7CK/Yyi/KCSYRtSsuok1RuVEfHN2mlBhRkDvvUUyT+gRpRyseQhkR NmwSVwtMfs80n4kM3dxccXd/du+kEdC/Sakxg1+yb+cpLKfe2CdaxO5tpCD5zmfujVAT lS+HtuH4mX8Tnwh6CWtq7oVWvhdSwp9JjUhTJe3uuh5Rsnj9AUvZJPwgs+h/Xk5iPsXg 7RZPV7y7Z+j7ICruCNgOJv5oy1SNJfe7bKrnMeX6A9oR0ivfjUE99CEd2NZ18yiTSDCf brBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=qIjYlxQepjsI1TLuYtNN/TugZJrASf4D0MAXisR/YVQ=; b=H3U4aCLZMy8ea5yCdybka53HpFr8wl65hj91vVqeQKJBzCoKWHm6tNQOGYTralcVbP ySInuGWOAVqzIM45li0hXoInqGGfqp/joWdnA9rT6KTa5qO85Tr0+OTy5y1mmDIwD6x1 m5gufHCW/joZ6I4Kddw5jBLKln1gc0MtvLZccQ10KgDZ31c3f1UPIvzVdPRJn+4RXTwj UGqWfXz0P5zeCvajUDUPLNtmoUNldg6w2ARB+boT+C/8DlBJxjgIwh5efhMDyQ34nUJU wgDtIACLTyjM5zo+2lApVQ74oz/cztlO+6ZBWNIIVppSfAqIXNb7zmv7sFpWNO55Dmf5 YA1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530QqeRyaLSHb3RVxebzSHQWwGMiJbDy2F1fj7RA380c5SYd5h1P ZPjP4PoLb86lx4LnfIQcRVfPws5Y4+sLZjnVQiG2oSyv X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx68vmWXau3eqJvYbObhwGYiw3RIYyImS5ET0RPFoNqS7XlycSp+8JBTYpbVZ2FxkTvmmJAfzMReFngVG2BCvM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1201:: with SMTP id a1mr8639428oil.153.1641534512683; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 21:48:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jon Pike Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 21:48:20 -0800 Message-ID: To: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000083df0605d4f789e1" Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] Upcoming WiFi standard to set per-flow DSCP values? X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:48:33 -0000 --00000000000083df0605d4f789e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" And there I was, thinking it was some kind of improvement on things... Sounds like I should go from insuring I have it, to figuring out how to disable it altogether? An "Unmark them all and let Airtime Fairness sort them out" situation would be better? Or is there something sensible inbetween? > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 4:28 AM Sebastian Moeller wrote: > >> Hi Toke, hi Jon, >> >> IMHO RFC8325 and the whole WMM scheme clearly lacks data showing that is >> actually delivers on its promises. RFC8325 specifically seems obsessed in >> changing mappings such that PHBs align with the 4 WMM queues, instead of >> interpreting the fact that the apparent mismatch between what the IETF >> thinks about specific PHBs/DSCPs and how they are treated for most users, >> as clear sign, that reality does not care... (probably mostly driven by the >> elephant in the room, of DSCPs not being end-to-end). >> >> I agree with Toke that allowing APs to steer specific DSCP use by >> applications seems taking an proven non-working idea to the extreme... (APs >> can already instruct stations on which DSCPs to map to which AC (see >> Felix's patch), which is not used that much, no idea why anybody thinks >> that allowing APs even more disruptive changes to end-point behavior is >> going to work any better). >> >> Regards >> Sebastian >> >> P.S.: IMHO the biggest change might be the up-prioritisation of EF from >> AC_VI to AC_VO, and I am not sure that is a good idea. >> >> >> Make-wifi-fast mailing list > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast > > --00000000000083df0605d4f789e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And there I was, thinking it was some kind of improvement= on things...

Sounds like I should go from insuring I have it,=C2=A0= to figuring out how to disable it altogether?=C2=A0 An "Unmark them a= ll and let Airtime Fairness sort them out" situation would be better?= =C2=A0 Or is there something sensible inbetween?=C2=A0


On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 4:28 AM Sebastian Moeller <<= a href=3D"mailto:moeller0@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">moel= ler0@gmx.de> wrote:
Hi Toke, hi Jon,

IMHO RFC8325 and the whole WMM scheme clearly lacks data showing that is ac= tually delivers on its promises. RFC8325 specifically seems obsessed in cha= nging mappings such that PHBs align with the 4 WMM queues, instead of inter= preting the fact that the apparent mismatch between what the IETF thinks ab= out specific PHBs/DSCPs and how they are treated for most users, as clear s= ign, that reality does not care... (probably mostly driven by the elephant = in the room, of DSCPs not being end-to-end).

I agree with Toke that allowing APs to steer specific DSCP use by applicati= ons seems taking an proven non-working idea to the extreme... (APs can alre= ady instruct stations on which DSCPs to map to which AC (see Felix's pa= tch), which is not used that much, no idea why anybody thinks that allowing= APs even more disruptive changes to end-point behavior is going to work an= y better).

Regards
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sebastian

P.S.: IMHO the biggest change might be the up-prioritisation of EF from AC_= VI to AC_VO, and I am not sure that is a good idea.


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