From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFF753CB5E; Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id t74so21337335lff.2; Sun, 05 Jul 2020 11:13:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=PNwR53Zsfk0/4Z8miaPzEhmPGqAtss0stkAnCRijrRs=; b=HKIYbq4cgjfyxAJ1cD3Vjz3bEDaMrpI5NQ83HJhcQ6DK7psOjCSYN3Mh+8UkFtf6cq 0FJSKS8GlX7HhLo7MYgPpLKnAl306zHAaTTMdeZVpDjyDxYy7xj5rjL6E317n7c/s3dY Ic70YR3iKxnZpMtbfIdanFwadDpwgGe4sfghhcYdkC+/yW+3qkFiqzEjMnLS6voFueAV LgXz9D3XnYzcBKPPmai/ReV7Hp/Kl/2pqpOiW+gbADgUq2lpa/Lwh/6z/tGhs94aebY0 3acH1C4FQgFUFmmzkUBZD8pB1fEEgPCpXTlDX2tQWkY5RYus4xwJQs/psJIkSrrYUgez 5WOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=PNwR53Zsfk0/4Z8miaPzEhmPGqAtss0stkAnCRijrRs=; b=LFU8/GG5+CTNqmoHOEi3ZvxSSyYNdWsD2J1sLOunWtN0wvlV1sGz8LW5StMfF6c+SR gldmEjqSxR7wwkJfsShrxrn2bMIc8oc19LzaMuN4nNgUWmZRQ2Yn7YTFA5dbXhrBHaEb OYwnunrSwvS9KADipRPAT8RLfMbhq0UBkiONybprVVRN7TW+kQb7qhMjAWDjr+grOZmN WaqIVuhxR6z+48+IR+FPjWwfm3FrX3hLg+/zufEl+z3gtBh6SgUJ3Sli1GsO5cwKqgEW aQuiEgzx7GQQbCPujkKAKqnbd+56+/3krYTpY2Q18QQ3V5Y45a5/O8l6j1JXug7U1f7H 8eqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531iFN/hPUIUbzJolONdYVwyGhOFNHDkt4pOd1JkXLOjxD+6r/9S TPqvPknYs9KUKZ5vl+0FZuo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzTWt59QVA2XaMXsmswlIpwugpaOpphrZOWqZp0B5iTSofDeOOduRdc76CpF76r8AU1y3XcUA== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5e6c:: with SMTP id a12mr28153258lfr.35.1593972822678; Sun, 05 Jul 2020 11:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-252-162-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.252.162]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 24sm8329353lfy.59.2020.07.05.11.13.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 05 Jul 2020 11:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.5\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <20200705110934.55bcfb43@hermes.lan> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 21:13:39 +0300 Cc: Michael Richardson , Carlo Augusto Grazia , Make-Wifi-fast , Jamshid Mahdavi , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5405F10B-F446-4B74-8894-33232145EB2E@gmx.de> <9A7FBFF1-7F10-41DD-B5C3-5A45254CEB54@gmx.de> <14692.1593971007@localhost> <20200705110934.55bcfb43@hermes.lan> To: Stephen Hemminger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.5) Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Bloat] the future belongs to pacing X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2020 18:13:44 -0000 > On 5 Jul, 2020, at 9:09 pm, Stephen Hemminger = wrote: >=20 > I keep wondering how BBR will respond to intermediaries that aggregate = packets. > At higher speeds, won't packet trains happen and would it not get = confused > by this? Or is its measurement interval long enough that it doesn't = matter. Up-thread, there was mention of patches related to wifi. Aggregation is = precisely one of the things that would address. I should note that the = brief description I gave glossed over a lot of fine details of BBR's = implementation, which include careful filtering and conditioning of the = data it gathers about the network path. I'm not altogether a fan of such complexity. - Jonathan Morton