From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63E4F21F985; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 01:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 282A0A1; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:55:39 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1441702540; bh=77HK2H82B8cNhkHvX+VX7lqVYrKrsJJq1dhRzuPOKzQ=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=yBr9ffN3PNLKwIkC7zTo0T6mNJqdfKE/YLvp2o8OCxFW/08ZNx+vtcNg5Bnktx9ZF PFipRqcv3OTBU6j30O/Dcxrm1NCKj64AJQiQZ9vHjc/X/aOWGL/i1Pzv6E27P0y8v9 lyfZR4MRGXE21Y5Ln0kuVxgvPVQSLEpBEOfqSuNc= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2309F9F; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:55:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:55:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Dave Taht In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <3622_1441530152_55EC0128_3622_12857_1_trq0v99audwl95cwathr8odm.1441530143942@email.android.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net" , cerowrt-devel , bloat Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Bloat] RE : Save WiFi from the FCC - DEADLINE is in 3 days *September* 8 X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 08:56:06 -0000 On Tue, 8 Sep 2015, Dave Taht wrote: > On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 1:22 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >> On Tue, 8 Sep 2015, Dave Taht wrote: >> >>> wifi, and the carriers... which bugs me. 5.x ghz is the people's >>> spectrum, that we should be free to use any way we want... and to make > > Please note that the LTE-U debate is separate from the lockdown > debate, which only has a day to run. Can we get more letters into the > FCC for the lockdown problem? I have already posted as well. > And jeeze, what makes sense - on the "licensed" spectrum - is the > government auctions it off for big bucks one year, and then the public > pays rents on it for all eternity. Far saner to have more openly > available spectrum Well, yes, we need both unlicensed and licensed spectrum. > One failed concept in america, at least, is the idea of a commons - as > in a tragedy of the commons - elsewhere, for example, "public lands" are > actually "the queen's" lands and people tend to treat them with more > respect. Yes, in sweden we have something called (translated) "Rights of public access" to land for instance, I'm allowed to go camping in someone elses forest as long as it's noncommercial and I leave it as I found it. It's a constant battle to keep this freedom and I agree we need this for radio as well. BUT it's not like unlicensed radio today means you can do whatever you want, there is still quite a lot of regulation around it. So I can understand if they want to achieve that regulated devices in unlicensed spectrum actually follows the regulation. The problem is that it's different across the world, I've heard that in Thailand for instance, you're only allowed to transmit with a total of 100mW from a device, so if you turn on both 2.4GHz and 5GHz radios, you need to limit them to 50mW each (or some combination). How would a completely open device solve this problem? So I think a constructive approach would be to try to say how the FCC concern can be solved or at least mitigated in a FOSS world. Do we have any ideas? Because I can understand that regulators whose job it is to make sure devices follow the rules have a problem with FOSS code that lets people do whatever they want. Do we really want for regulators to bring back the vans who might roll around and impose a fine because you were running OpenWRT and happened to set the output power too high for whatever local regulation was in place? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se