From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from tn-mailgw-04.telenor.no (tn-mailgw-04.telenor.no [153.110.76.7]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C184E3B29D; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 03:18:21 -0500 (EST) IronPort-SDR: TTHdYcQrxX7+LD14/hocz8LwpYMZc/7eDfhdpABq+0IcH1vhqZljU9DpugBpQLSho1XbnjPxxe OXIgD3pNTfWB+96Sf2Fy2n4VY7/FSgJ5tuweY3gJ3mMogjzV5u2u8qbpxpLB3ycXrbBAMu/0RA taJMi6xslaUtmne8JI+COO2FOn9bLcI1vQbGeCo2RddnTHNl4Fzxua/tpGpbkeV3ADRK1wDcQ9 SaYbVwEahoVXXnXFB5n+ykZhBOabE7nBBxpEy1iI3qDXHyS9yh/JEx5x7PaSx9QeOTSlFHwhlR /RM= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.81,205,1610409600"; d="scan'208,217";a="87815444" Received: from tns-sko-24-203.corp.telenor.no ([10.179.59.71]) by tn-mailgw-04.corp.telenor.no with ESMTP; 25 Feb 2021 08:18:18 +0000 Received: from TNS-SKO-24-200.corp.telenor.no (10.179.59.68) by TNS-SKO-24-203.corp.telenor.no (10.179.59.71) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:18:18 +0100 Received: from outlook.telenor.no (10.179.127.57) by TNS-SKO-24-200.corp.telenor.no (10.179.59.68) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:18:18 +0100 Received: from pwpvn2209ex001.nxvp.net (10.149.139.134) by pwpvn2209ex003.nxvp.net (10.149.139.136) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2044.4; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:18:18 +0100 Received: from pwpvn2209ex001.nxvp.net ([10.149.139.134]) by pwpvn2209ex001.nxvp.net ([10.149.139.134]) with mapi id 15.01.2044.004; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:18:18 +0100 From: Taraldsen Erik To: Nils Andreas Svee , Dave Taht , bloat , Make-Wifi-fast , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Toke_H=F8iland-J=F8rgensen_via_Cake?= Thread-Topic: [Cake] [Bloat] Fwd: [Galene] Dave on bufferbloat and jitter at 8pm CET Tuesday 23 Thread-Index: AQHXCwSf67ElKEybbECYVwmbkehvrqpodR4m Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 08:18:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <874ki24ref.wl-jch@irif.fr> <1e41ddf7-cd08-4fec-b31a-3021f8111dc6@www.fastmail.com> <2f30c201fce345658df9f2a5090745cf@telenor.no>, <480413c4-e9a1-4b78-8ef6-3d8658836874@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <480413c4-e9a1-4b78-8ef6-3d8658836874@www.fastmail.com> Accept-Language: nb-NO, en-US Content-Language: nb-NO X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.149.139.228] x-tm-snts-smtp: 91FD6F07469EF65B8A3F416725DB1BF9E88958FB716EB955C083AF245FB4A9B52000:8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_f5c96a7d5360417bbf8d71ee603eacddtelenorno_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 05:32:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] [Bloat] Fwd: [Galene] Dave on bufferbloat and jitter at 8pm CET Tuesday 23 X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 08:18:22 -0000 --_000_f5c96a7d5360417bbf8d71ee603eacddtelenorno_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is getting rather rather Telenor internal and probably is not true for= other ISP's, but here we go. Mobile Broad Band (MBB) is handled by Teleno= r's Mobile division. Fixed Wireless Access (FWA) is handled by Telenors Fix= ed division (the same group who does DSL, DOCSIS and GPON). To further com= plicate matters, Telenor Group (holding company for Telenor Fixed and Telen= or Mobile) deiced to launch FWA before the new value chain was ready. So w= e have two versions of FWA - internally called FWA1 and FWA2. FWA1 (which = you have Nils) is not fully compliant with the regulatory definition of a f= ixed access and has very limited management support (technical monitoring, = firmware upgrades etc). I'm working on the FWA2 value chain and devices. I assume you are doing the tests on Ethernet, not wifi? I know the B818 ha= s some wifi issues as well. To isolate the LTE access I mean. Yes interesting to see the signal stats from the device, but not needed. M= ore for my curiosity to compare with the Zyxel devices. So with subscription limited to 30Mbit and probably radio head room up to ~= 70Mbit downstream and 10Mbit upstream. My guess is that you will see more = latency in the upstream direction. I believe the B818 has the very typical= "1000 packets fifo, never drop" implementation. -Erik ________________________________ Fra: Cake p=E5 vegne av Nils Andreas S= vee Sendt: torsdag 25. februar 2021 00.27 Til: Taraldsen Erik; Dave Taht; bloat; cerowrt-devel; Make-Wifi-fast; Toke = H=F8iland-J=F8rgensen via Cake Emne: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] Fwd: [Galene] Dave on bufferbloat and jitter at 8p= m CET Tuesday 23 Ah, yeah it's fixed wireless I meant. Didn't really know how to say it righ= t in English. We've got the Huawei B818-260 with an EMCOM XPOL-2 4G/5G on the wall. Yes, we've got a 30 Mbit/sec subscription. In practice we usually see ~30 M= bit downstream and 10-15 upstream, and I believe when we first got the B818= and antenna hooked up I measured ~70 Mbit downstream with a subscription t= hat didn't have any rate limitations, so I assumed we should have a good am= ount of leeway if something affected the signal. Sure, I can run some more tests tomorrow. Could also grab some signal stats= from the B818 if those are of interest. By the way, I forgot to mention it when I posted yesterdays tests, but thos= e were conducted over a WireGuard tunnel with CAKE for the downstream runni= ng on the other side. Doing that was the only way to get the ADSL subscript= ion we had to behave decently, it simply couldn't handle things like Steam = downloads with CAKE on a IFB device in ingress mode, and shaping downstream= this way kinda stuck. Best Regards Nils --_000_f5c96a7d5360417bbf8d71ee603eacddtelenorno_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is getting rather rather Telenor internal and probably is not true = for other ISP's, but here we go.  Mobile Broad Band (MBB) is handled b= y Telenor's Mobile division. Fixed Wireless Access (FWA) is handled by Tele= nors Fixed division (the same group who does DSL, DOCSIS and GPON).  To further complicate matters, Telenor G= roup (holding company for Telenor Fixed and Telenor Mobile) deiced to launc= h FWA before the new value chain was ready.  So we have two versions o= f FWA - internally called FWA1 and FWA2.  FWA1 (which you have Nils) is not fully compliant with the regulatory defi= nition of a fixed access and has very limited management support (technical= monitoring, firmware upgrades etc).  I'm working on the FWA2 value ch= ain and devices.


I assume you are doing the tests on Ethernet, not wifi?  I know the= B818 has some wifi issues as well.  To isolate the LTE access I mean.=  


Yes interesting to see the signal stats from the device, but not needed.=   More for my curiosity to compare with the Zyxel devices.


So with subscription limited to 30Mbit and probably radio head room up t= o ~70Mbit downstream and 10Mbit upstream.  My guess is that you will s= ee more latency in the upstream direction.  I believe the B818 has the= very typical "1000 packets fifo, never drop" implementation.



-Erik







Fra: Cake <cake-bounce= s@lists.bufferbloat.net> p=E5 vegne av Nils Andreas Svee <me@lochnair= .net>
Sendt: torsdag 25. februar 2021 00.27
Til: Taraldsen Erik; Dave Taht; bloat; cerowrt-devel; Make-Wifi-fast= ; Toke H=F8iland-J=F8rgensen via Cake
Emne: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] Fwd: [Galene] Dave on bufferbloat and jitte= r at 8pm CET Tuesday 23
 
Ah, yeah it's fixed wireless I meant. Didn't really know how to say it= right in English.

We've got the Huawei B818-260 with an EMCOM XPOL-2 4G/5G on the wal= l.

Yes, we've got a 30 Mbit/sec subscription. In practice we usually see ~3= 0 Mbit downstream and 10-15 upstream, and I believe when we first got the B= 818 and antenna hooked up I measured ~70 Mbit downstream with a subscription that didn't have any rate limitations,= so I assumed we should have a good amount of leeway if something affected = the signal.

Sure, I can run some more tests tomorrow. Could also grab some signal = stats from the B818 if those are of interest.

By the way, I forgot to mention it when I posted yesterdays tests, but= those were conducted over a WireGuard tunnel with CAKE for the downstream = running on the other side. Doing that was the only way to get the ADSL subs= cription we had to behave decently, it simply couldn't handle things like Steam downloads with CAKE on a IFB d= evice in ingress mode, and shaping downstream this way kinda stuck.

Best Regards
Nils

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