From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lang.hm; dkim=fail; arc=none (Message is not ARC signed); dmarc=none Received: from mail.lang.hm (wsip-70-167-213-146.ph.ph.cox.net [70.167.213.146]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08BD511D7E5D; Mon, 08 Jun 2026 08:53:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.2.3.133] (unknown [10.2.3.133]) by mail.lang.hm (Postfix) with ESMTP id 115C6227961; Sun, 7 Jun 2026 23:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2026 23:53:51 -0700 (MST) From: David Lang To: bob.mcmahon@umbernetworks.com cc: David Lang , Sebastian Moeller , Frantisek Borsik , codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, dan , Cake List , Make-Wifi-fast , bloat , Jiml , William Fisher , Thomas , Tim Odriscoll , Koen DS In-Reply-To: <96b49cf26ef92dc866b072f1f455b648@umbernetworks.com> Message-ID: References: <8e14c6935753c6263351ad00ec59b9cb@umbernetworks.com> <055e42685cddfa4c1a4ff4da089996eb@umbernetworks.com> <7455E3B4-7FB4-4D40-A900-B31151D12F6F@gmx.de> <52CE3DA7-EC5A-4FF8-A88E-26A7A6661983@gmx.de> <8qr7qons-5sp9-o30o-49qr-02p67prss6rr@ynat.uz> <04196260-1r1n-3qpr-39qs-7r40p1183s5o@ynat.uz> <96b49cf26ef92dc866b072f1f455b648@umbernetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-ID-Hash: XKMVPJBGSPPS7MU5KTXCCOE2QNYG576X X-Message-ID-Hash: XKMVPJBGSPPS7MU5KTXCCOE2QNYG576X X-MailFrom: david@lang.hm X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; loop; banned-address; emergency; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.10 Precedence: list Subject: [Make-wifi-fast] Re: [Bloat] Re: [Codel] [Rpm] Re: Re: [Cake] "Fi-Wi is a new forwarding plane for wireless" - Bob McMahon List-Id: Lets make wifi fast again! Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: bob.mcmahon@umbernetworks.com wrote: >> you may be able to make a dent in the AP use of airtime, but how are you >> going to coordinate the wifi devices you are talking to that are using so >> much of it, and doing most of the hidden transmitter stomping on each >> other? you can do channel allocation and lower the AP power to reduce (and >> if you can use DFS channels almost eliminate) the APs stepping on each >> other, but doesn't solve the mobile device coordination. >> > > David, > > The first answer is RRH density. > > With many RRHs distributed through the building, each RRH serves a smaller > number of STAs in a smaller physical area. STAs associated to the same RRH > are much more likely to hear each other, so the hidden-node precondition > becomes less common by construction. Hidden node requires two STAs that > cannot hear each other but share the same AP. Shrink the cell and the > geometry works in your favor before any other mechanism is applied. to support the 3000+ users, I deploy over 120 openWRT APs, as many as 10 in a single room (usually 5+) David Lang