From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail33.out.titan.email (mail33.out.titan.email [3.121.9.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E22703CB37 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 15:15:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail13.out.flockmail.com (ip-10-10-86-170.eu-central-1.compute.internal [10.10.86.170]) by smtp-out.titan.email (Postfix) with ESMTP id E34A1120640 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 20:15:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-out.flockmail.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-out.flockmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8EB10009C; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 20:15:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-76-137-180-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.137.180.175]) by smtp-out.flockmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EAEC81000C8; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 20:15:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=3kitty.org; s=titan1; t=1708632934; bh=ABF/oTZaDrtfahOFlCG+tx5GfMgI54DgWFWxHV50uQk=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:References:From: In-Reply-To:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID; b=a5PH8Ui5Uvk3L7pkCks6/cKTZ7qAjgioCg91mdi1a6DBEsG00GCESRCM3Ldn9518o /O7FL05gH0PmWSAydp4w3hx56rBlE8R2IlRxM1zsSUbWGD0b4KUExlA19Jyplhd0dK aKvLz/eHTPulRUaWfk57U5Zn/kzLqL/oTwICBfLU= Message-ID: <05dbadb4-b14c-4cc3-9f94-2e4b9ac6104a@3kitty.org> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 12:15:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net References: Feedback-ID: :jack@3kitty.org:3kitty.org:flockmailId From: Jack Haverty Autocrypt: addr=jack@3kitty.org; keydata= xsDNBGCm2psBDADGOWO8n9wfkDW9ZUEo8o+SZ5MU9us2il+fS4EFM/RaZFIbQ+P72bExzSd3 WnJdPfqO1O7Q+dRnvVO9+G2/9oT/uRZVaE05+SothzKZBv32HcZoUkdNZOTqSkdo3EwNPjid LLxX+dMBxMpR3pBdvGN8Z7lnZe6fV4QO2xtd58y3B33AVZJp+RuNwucby9dY2meyy2BJVKrx mKhYXAucVyg0ALVIchHt9UknVW4aLvQF+oMfzXVvCWeguW+DvbyazVceWGO7FSgUJ8ED3Ii7 xAR5zZJ1LASoMhG1ixg07P9Uy4ohV6c+c0yV9SY4yqhZ3+zN2cm9h/aXpwjSuiVVAJbK7zzb FjI+h89dbnaVQrLx6GikV0OVYqC6TCeMfCFZQAJLs1icxQi3BLL7O1fbTGatEfTgLa5nqfKq K/D/HlOCUeFxqZI8hXvT5dG4e1m3ilpF2/ytcWKSVg3d699UFntPv3sEbAQwwfXsnuD4Hem6 0Ao0/z41n8x1aeZE80FdkpEAEQEAAc0eSmFjayBIYXZlcnR5IDxqYWNrQDNraXR0eS5vcmc+ wsEJBBMBCAAzFiEEZLvMn5vmvTAlFEILdGzDIkA7jlAFAmCm2pwCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsC BRYCAwEAAAoJEHRswyJAO45QuX0L/jOluv8fr/BmuEEQsWWGW6oARIbjDQrI93kXIJXuPnfp tGjkx/f1TMIzI2B9s/tejiYE7IZOhWbX1YvKF0UbkSJi50UyV9XtYRnLdD5TcksKB4luDF8S R+nj5WBm17Bp8qwriCMgA1jGL2wQ7J1KUw4Q/gsMcjhn/39PevswkriU2qqVplfCs9yTTMU5 SvtE2U9F3Y1ZINHn3kUysvxhRFd+Oh3PocWHmVE+hkII+qsra6z4eztDgoB+vqxmOJEdtvex GhT8OKu74DacguZVfu/AV+cwpX701sdjJrMyKjcv8uhFLM/E5gf6kSUAFxBVwe6pNDmAgmbS c0fAFrZjgXxNxxndpu/8OAUDVzKg+l5WJ0nWss9Q14BwA+FcoclO3lwzFu7jOiLvkm7jQkFB o+p8Owe4iAED1KK/aocIa/RiD4sZ3KXUJ92kkemZ1Qe2XpFVdzxaQDG0huNkc5Mie9rdt62O Ae+5cYdPeWmBVn+pFNs5H09kQQbVR5pUxe2Aps7AzQRgptqcAQwAzzougHNMFr/O/L8HnNJW 1YyOuX0PEVNUXQPwkxKuD8bAXsPr4Hv1a+840ByesiJSadhQgVSMruRqoQC5tTkbEWkqlfDW waNAdqCJOXl2T6gtK7RpcHNx7+/du/gCAhHOXqH1Qfs0Zi3YEbR/kQFRP3wD4GiCvHSny8zJ X9plIHqQGoE5DePNAtE2KimbFMsjguqJgq5x0tMf3qEaMNd0IGTStGpcC49iss71slotH091 Y1Yo9CpzL6rj8IP0BfssEujAvf3Gbf1oi92JRE3s2humFDfPvSlHmRIfWPQ4qFOw1zmlzsV1 eg83gErKbjaDdkbwQA85RTmMVKNVvonM80WB6jAg8tlJ5VlYlpbzASpJRNj+FL1LLBQxCbPU eFwrzqYgNvtdKR7j5nTgdndCxq+2aws/aAjdL10S8yeH7ZOpNPzjDJfMSt/L1O25zPUhXdQC 9AZNYsfyV7rf+POEgVpIEth1fT9WbmS0rZxRd/+y628n31GicbA+teN890vdABEBAAHCwPYE GAEIACAWIQRku8yfm+a9MCUUQgt0bMMiQDuOUAUCYKbanQIbDAAKCRB0bMMiQDuOUF1LC/4q 4pLtmDt6TIET2H7zGj5ie3ng7kC7YqtFPYwgLQzs9WeqQ/5WowEmHOPonBcqhGbtDj22GebQ 7w0RoUHb+aXsbC85I/C+nWgT1ZcfMBTHGlBcIQvOCNG18g87Ha9jgD0HnW4bRUkZmGMpP0Yd TLM+PBNu41AK6z82VPQrfTuPKqwAAS2FK/RpF2xB7rjpETzIPl9Dj9EAkRbviURIg0BQkmej l02FLzGmlTfBIDHBdEgzvD71Z5H9BP8DAbxBzonSTzx/KZyv7njSUzdVLW+5O/WzPgb4Qt4I jQd66LS9HWS1G7AcLjiSQAIf8v7JkX3NwtN+NGX5cmt2p0e9FOOKWXVgCIgPN3/712EEGAgq UUxuPEBD5DrRCgjZL40eHxQza2BAhoVoWopUCGZdCCZJP3iF7818wIph0U393DELG9NAGLJa qkoA8KBimXp9Rd2QvpA864JRy/REoEOEF9lm3clriLyEqaL/VMIQRhl/VSkUuez4Wr68eHus TFdwePg= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------YCDIvLDsvfETgRM0Y6BMOlwC" X-F-Verdict: SPFVALID X-Titan-Src-Out: 1708632934298865664.4312.8147684092453497310@prod-use1-smtp-out1002. X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=LLBgQoW9 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=65d7ab66 a=cdvcmBiFVbz+0Uto4GLkPg==:117 a=cdvcmBiFVbz+0Uto4GLkPg==:17 a=CEWIc4RMnpUA:10 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=oTX7CxVDPWmOyDvgK5wA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Z26_5fbXNc5ALdkP4kkA:9 a=tdKQngyn37PxqN6n:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=mVcgwxjBTkr3zjpDlhIA:9 a=FfaGCDsud1wA:10 a=unsnWIT988vGFacqBK4A:9 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Subject: [NNagain] Email and The Internet? X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 20:15:36 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------YCDIvLDsvfETgRM0Y6BMOlwC Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1jmhoNKlNnD0Nq8W2oCglphQ"; protected-headers="v1" From: Jack Haverty To: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net Message-ID: <05dbadb4-b14c-4cc3-9f94-2e4b9ac6104a@3kitty.org> Subject: Email and The Internet? References: In-Reply-To: --------------1jmhoNKlNnD0Nq8W2oCglphQ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------SNo7EuXCponfZlJ5iZbb4zaw" --------------SNo7EuXCponfZlJ5iZbb4zaw Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------ZOyL0poXtpz6U4E09NK9rRX4" --------------ZOyL0poXtpz6U4E09NK9rRX4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T24gMi8yMi8yNCAwNTozOSwgRGF2ZSBUYWh0IHZpYSBObmFnYWluIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBJIGRv IGhvcGUgdGhhdA0KPiBlbWFpbCBtYWtlcyBhIGNvbWViYWNrLg0KPg0KPiBCdXQgc29tZW9u ZXMgbmVlZCB0byBzdGFydCBtYWludGFpbmluZyBpdCBiZXR0ZXIuDQoNClNvbWVvbmU/DQoN CkluIHRoZSAxOTgwcywgSSB3YXMgdmVyeSBpbnZvbHZlZCBpbiB0aGUgZWFybHkgSW50ZXJu ZXQuwqAgQXQgdGhlIHRpbWUsIA0KaXQgd2FzIGZ1bmRlZCBieSB0aGUgVVMgZ292ZXJubWVu dCwgYW5kIHRoZSBwb2xpY3ktbWFrZXJzIGFuZCANCnRlY2hub2xvZ2lzdHMgd2VyZSB0aWdo dGx5IGNvdXBsZWQuwqDCoCBJZiB3ZSBkaWRuJ3QgYnVpbGQgd2hhdCB0aGV5IA0KbmVlZGVk LCB0aGUgZnVuZGluZyB3b3VsZCBzdG9wLsKgwqAgU2ltcGxlIGFuZCBlZmZlY3RpdmUgZmVl ZGJhY2sgbG9vcC4NCg0KQXQgdGhlIHRpbWUsIGVsZWN0cm9uaWMgbWFpbCB3YXMgcHJvYmFi bHkgdGhlIG1vc3QgaW1wb3J0YW50IHNlcnZpY2UgZm9yIA0KdGhlIGVuZC11c2Vycy7CoCBQ ZW9wbGUgZGlkbid0IHNlbmQgZGF0YWdyYW1zIHRvIGVhY2ggb3RoZXIuIFRoZXkgc2VudCAN CmVtYWlsLsKgwqAgRW1haWwgaGFkIHRvIHdvcmsgb3IgdGhlIEludGVybmV0IHdhcyB1c2Vs ZXNzLg0KDQpBIGxvdCBvZiBlZmZvcnQgd2FzIHB1dCBpbnRvIG1ha2luZyBzdXJlIHRoYXQg ZW1haWwgd29ya2VkLCBzdWNoIGFzIHRoZSANCiJNYWlsYnJpZGdlcyIgdGhhdCB3ZXJlIGNy dWNpYWwgY29tcG9uZW50cyBvZiB0aGUgRGVmZW5zZSBEYXRhIE5ldHdvcmsgDQphcyBpdCBl bWVyZ2VkIGZyb20gdGhlIHJlc2VhcmNoIHdvcmxkLsKgwqAgUG9saWN5LW1ha2VycyBhbmQg dGVjaG5vbG9naXN0cyANCndlcmUgcHVyc3VpbmcgYSBjb21tb24gbWlzc2lvbi7CoMKgIFRo ZSBwZW9wbGUgd2hvIGZ1bmRlZCxvciBidWlsdCwgb3IgDQpvcGVyYXRlZCB0aGUgdmFyaW91 cyBwaWVjZXMgb2YgVGhlIEludGVybmV0IGZlbHQgcmVzcG9uc2libGUsIGFuZCB3ZXJlIA0K cmVzcG9uc2libGUsIGZvciBhbGwgdGhlIEludGVybmV0IGVsZW1lbnRzIG5lY2Vzc2FyeSBm b3IgdGhlIGVuZCB1c2VycyANCnRvIHVzZSB0aGUgbmV0Lg0KDQpGb3J0eSB5ZWFycyBsYXRl ciwgZW1haWwgaGFzIGRlZ2VuZXJhdGVkLsKgIFdoeT8NCg0KUXVlc3Rpb24gLS0gaXMgRW1h aWwgbm93IHN0aWxsIGFuIGltcG9ydGFudCBjb21wb25lbnQgb2YgSW50ZXJuZXQgDQpzZXJ2 aWNlP8KgIERvIElYUHMgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGV5IGhhdmUgYSByZXNwb25zaWJpbGl0eSB0byBt YWtlIHN1cmUgZW1haWwgDQp3b3Jrcz8NCg0KV2hvIGlzICJzb21lb25lIj8NCg0KSmFjayBI YXZlcnR5DQoNCg== --------------ZOyL0poXtpz6U4E09NK9rRX4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/22/24 05:39, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote:
I do hope that
email makes a comeback.

But someones need to start maintaining it better.

Someone?

In the 1980s, I was very involved in the early Internet.=C2=A0 At the= time, it was funded by the US government, and the policy-makers and technologists were tightly coupled.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If we didn't build wh= at they needed, the funding would stop.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Simple and effective feed= back loop.

At the time, electronic mail was probably the most important service for the end-users.=C2=A0 People didn't send datagrams to each other.=C2= =A0 They sent email.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Email had to work or the Internet was us= eless.=C2=A0=C2=A0

A lot of effort was put into making sure that email worked, such as the "Mailbridges" that were crucial components of the Defense Data Network as it emerged from the research world.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Policy-mak= ers and technologists were pursuing a common mission.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The people = who funded,or built, or operated the various pieces of The Internet felt responsible, and were responsible, for all the Internet elements necessary for the end users to use the net.

Forty years later, email has degenerated.=C2=A0 Why?

Question -- is Email now still an important component of Internet service?=C2=A0 Do IXPs believe they have a responsibility to make sur= e email works?

Who is "someone"?

Jack Haverty

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