From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pl1-x62b.google.com (mail-pl1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C14D3B2A4 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2025 21:21:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-223f4c06e9fso28658535ad.1 for ; Sat, 05 Apr 2025 18:21:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stonescry-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1743902518; x=1744507318; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=vIrIerdqrGm/qgSm7Llv15gF9kuMXs/7ADJirHMm7Zg=; b=ZHatAdpwdwFZ1AKFenJIm4jOsxQzV06XXHxxi/oF7iNQhbk3pXkw+czSr62SwIkiHh a6OvZHtIlqPn5QHhDb+wsmif1otzcLMX9i1KoSeoF3FarJL12grvBaBWmjc9hRR0y/zY wJl2rArx41juZNjz/84RCv5baa7RvL55WzVxlgk5acGfXmPSPfPG1+UjyLFo61t7Fdgl usX0SH+QvIhuhXFZKzx/BAg/qUWvPMOLLRQiTHeAjupVy2+Vi1SsBwxoAov4YIvt7qzc 4oTKAX2TPQFe0s2DwM6YOuF+9Z/I5O4NCzGmT6Xh1QkdlyyWpQGIZnJIGymQGSnbF95P Z5NQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1743902518; x=1744507318; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=vIrIerdqrGm/qgSm7Llv15gF9kuMXs/7ADJirHMm7Zg=; b=DF2vXqyAp5iTDOougfu24oiyr62y7kIMUAzhtFo5J4rHsT6gh5e81/ERE5c/oCmlZE S4rkS3DTDDUxOFkTfQ8PNQP4AK390Sp8MjUauYZQok0dnF2QIQXozAm/6RYHK+5wkC9x ESbIMGTD1W+a3EgDqylVtn8kK1IVuEpzW4KG9Pi5OcbywvA8hEkZO1nRH5GVvzisYaq+ JirZ8bLjVAjcUEmDCJMBCzsZDNS8oyxgmkMVjA4ogwfWNuP8rPgFGyxsrN3ssWA43Ut9 P8h9gIv1WoETvdNgvpsSB25dAxJLMG3YVks+68oRXcXCa2LRKyRuWcZUwgjty2wW0XXg 4GAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyO62P2YaQYqa6ww4dH827ImemtlMkNa0TVLBq1NWq23Fp2WjhB yCm5+KGKHuDZhE/Ukyx1aIoJ6M6SF6Xs9zlWgfH9Cme1g5qkwAEM+sS/wkviCXTHtxmPKc+jMLb c X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct+ru/om3eAZ6lNqXeSy+divFkE6gMprDgfWUAS/dIvMBIFEn00w8tZiMBzfWQ Py5Qe2PBEuDbLgvowow9B7QVYo2Ys2wvVgJ/Nn0Mk6bGbXgS4QB7sDokt7vMk3w/5X4hJkraHtj MH9gVpOKU0OrOX/OF/NDXYaVLWdjJGA+bjmQ5uwfbQ+QGWFMcb2rFPgAU5wxMTgeSwCihZXnr56 zqtanyWnjhmhvp/tzHaFYR3C3kU3uxNVgZQcl4LhOMzWVNxY/Ox+kQntrIKaOw/M4mT5rzh145C cDGDzjaEZ2Qpdbv2x8HrAMyTOniK1uXMaJVT5H3WeYn8VZRkOTN8qJqnzMaMs7AmXnXP X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IElxP6NK56MeV7CfwiCwx2fMdFLXaLbd+dOxzuVwHumnNXonFk3sIbkjvPcCpa6IFXbqApx8A== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:2406:b0:21a:7e04:7021 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-22a89ba8159mr111721175ad.24.1743902518239; Sat, 05 Apr 2025 18:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([47.147.179.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-2297865e45fsm55885815ad.135.2025.04.05.18.21.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 05 Apr 2025 18:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-36CEE44F-E9EF-43D7-99CA-368965697A82 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Daniel Ezell Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2025 18:21:43 -0700 Message-Id: <0C0CF6D1-DBB6-4BE1-B9D2-5FCDFB1B6257@stonescry.com> References: Cc: Frantisek Borsik , nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: To: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (22D82) Subject: Re: [NNagain] Spam filtering X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2025 01:21:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail-36CEE44F-E9EF-43D7-99CA-368965697A82 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Taking the Coast Starlight tonight. Wanted t= o compare notes with Dave about it. Sad to have missed the opportunity. So t= his trip is a memorial to a great guy I never got to meet. 
Daniel Ezell

On Oct 28, 2023, at 3:51=E2=80=AFAM, Fra= ntisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
=EF=BB=BFI just can't even. So many garbage ideas out of Brussels as of= late. DSA, DMA, DSM... GDPR in the past, or even that horrible CRA =3D = ;Cyber Resilience Act:


Good intentions don't count, bad results do. Most of the evil in this= world was done by people with good intentions and this is not an exception.=


All the best,

Frank

=

Frantisek (Fran= k) Borsik

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsi= k

= Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885=

Skype: c= asioa5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com



= On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 1:45=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.buffe= rbloat.net> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 4:2= 3=E2=80=AFPM Nathan Simington via Nnagain
<nnaga= in@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> This has gone from mere cost-shifting to protocol takeover. Self-hostin= g is essentially dead because you are guaranteed to get filtered by Outlook a= nd Gmail, which means that there is de facto embrace-and-extend -- "best vie= wed in Internet Explorer at 800x600" but for a core standard.

This is one of those things that could be reversed if there was law
guaranteeing  freedom of communications. That really does not seem to be the way the world is going, however.

See: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-c= ontrol/ for example.

I like email (and netnews). You had a copy, the recipients had copies,
and pretty much anyone that had the capability of snooping in-between
had copies.  Nobody ever got arround to making starttls mandatory.
Compare this to all the even more centralized, but incompatible chat
systems since, multiple ones that have vanished from the web (g+), and
others that are barely hanging on, like disquis.

Even with the flight to mastodon and other heavily encrypted home
server technologies, email remains the most common, useful and
malleable public identifier for connecting people to people. I would
like to make it better, for everyone, again.


> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 5:48=E2=80=AFPM Hal Murray via Nnagain <nnagain@lists= .bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> [Was Amtrack]
>>
>>
>> > 2) I could get mad that I figure 80% of this new email list is= vanishing into
>> > spam boxes.
>>
>>
>> > What of the 10s of thousands of other emails that have come ov= er the years
>> > not just from lists.bufferbloat.net but from people tryi= ng honestly to
>> > communicate?
>>
>> There is/was a good discussion of all the good things that network g= eeks have
>> done.
>>
>> How about discussing the things they haven't done?
>>
>> Spam would be pretty high on my list.  It's tangled up with (i= n)security -- a
>> lot comes from infected systems or phished accounts.
>>
>> The current approach to spam is cost shifting.  If you don't p= ay for your
>> abuse desk, the crap that you send or phishing sites you host..., m= eans that
>> the rest of the net has to spend more on defense.
>>
>> Anybody remember Spamford Wallace?  He was going to setup a sp= am friendly ISP.
>>  Nobody would connect to him.  I wonder what would happen= if a few ISPs that
>> host a lot of abuse had  more troubles getting connected to th= e net.  Would a
>> few well publicized examples be enough to spread the word?
>>
>>
>>
>> High on my list would be dis/mis-information.  The business mo= del seems to be
>> to show customers things that will keep them online so you can show= them more
>> ads.  Gues what does that?
>>
>> Is this also cost shifting?  It's society as a whole that has t= o pay for the
>> disruption caused by bogus information.
>>
>>
>> --
>> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nnagain mailing list
>> = Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain<= /a>
>
>
>
> --
> Nathan Simington
> cell: 305-793-6899
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nnag= ain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain<= br>


--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x= 17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@l= ists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
_______________________________________________
Nnagai= n mailing list
Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
= --Apple-Mail-36CEE44F-E9EF-43D7-99CA-368965697A82--