From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6708F3CB37 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6178320084E; Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap50 ([10.202.2.100]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 02 Oct 2023 14:28:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender :subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1696271301; x=1696357701; bh=Wr ZkzAcQFE+R1DIXm4C/Hv6f/lxq2bmMPJqnexwC/nw=; b=O3bW2rxCfT4NDBIE24 tqcj/xqkkxDZUewzIDznDs5a1D0WGT+vCveVUb/F7OedzHon4H+RzhlvFw/g+lH6 0QLEzBpcvi2nSZbWjhesXgLNSAf3BklhAgmJQtgVppPLOMOVNHym4BVpTR82CWTS cgFXD99QOExgITBER9z1VVPHesL0unzyfH7vqw87K7A+7TkFEVEPztINzPCQHDtV TI3XYjgI7aImiZwLFwchy2D+k+TDsACL1GTMLFCjvzUgdORiKLt3VQM84f5eCsBj XXPWItPK21mkYtTRa8wszl9cr23CesDN7Ay6TpPCcDdN9o6L1FxfO1O+aOVrLV62 pwRQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject :subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1696271301; x=1696357701; bh=WrZkzAcQFE+R1 DIXm4C/Hv6f/lxq2bmMPJqnexwC/nw=; b=dYLnpopL/v6LJ/is91ZGG0dKztVCC zcO+5n7s7A+XiQCkHBZXMC8KnnQk2p0cd0RQOCueMpOorDqUZ2oOv74dnTaZomDb fTDHHp/Ddvrl5LfyABOOT3laIHB0rP/9YtvpmShY56S8zndobnYbTdN8KujKUSF2 ODzSNnV4tpXul/hdoKDe7OKpdnEuqZ5UCi0U4sY4sS0jv+4uU8/jlFhQMOWbblRg eXbp2/ycZIAKKHL9UyBas6W+ZKyBPsMl09k8mUqf2x1EMYt0tm0r5qMgpWRAOcu9 Gu6k9jv3aeUgyzy3vs0eX8EEhWdwl6QJs6tb8GzZU+9zslTN67cgZ711A== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrvdelgdduvdeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvfevufgtsegrtderreerreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfpfgr thhhrghnucfnohhofhgsohhurhhrohiffdcuoehnjhhlohhofhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrd gtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeiffejhfevueejjefguddttddvfeehtdeujefh leefteefieegveffhedthfevteenucffohhmrghinhepsghufhhfvghrsghlohgrthdrnh gvthenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehn jhhlohhofhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i7cb94631:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1F0A91700089; Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-958-g1b1b911df8-fm-20230927.002-g1b1b911d MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0a158308-e0c1-4722-8013-745e3ded232d@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6D7F7242-248B-4FD4-BEDA-EE931B7DFE3C@andyring.com> References: <6D7F7242-248B-4FD4-BEDA-EE931B7DFE3C@andyring.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 11:28:00 -0700 From: "Nathan Loofbourrow" To: Nnagain Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=18b9a1f89a9d40f8a32a3a48d523bbac X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 14:37:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [NNagain] On "Throttling" behaviors X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 18:28:23 -0000 --18b9a1f89a9d40f8a32a3a48d523bbac Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We don=E2=80=99t really need to look that far to understand the risks =E2= =80=94 all you need to do is look at the =E2=80=9Czero rate=E2=80=9D pla= ns that Facebook and Google rolled out in countries outside the US, wher= e heavily discounted plans provided free access exclusively to their ser= vices, and charging only to reach other Internet destinations. On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, at 08:30, Andy Ringsmuth via Nnagain wrote: >=20 >=20 > > On Oct 1, 2023, at 8:34=E2=80=AFPM, dan via Nnagain wrote: > >=20 > > I think a big problem with Net Neutrality is it's sort of a topic fo= r providers and not for end users. Most end users have no concept of wh= at it is, why it's good or bad, and if they have a compliant service or = not. They confuse 'speed' with packet loss and latency. >=20 > Except that=E2=80=99s not true. During the Obama years when this was b= eing talked about, TPTB (the powers that be) were able to get a signific= ant number of end users all whipped into a frenzy over it, legitimately = or not, and it was being hammered all over the media and social networks. >=20 > Agreed, end users don=E2=80=99t generally understand it on a technical= level or the nuances of implementing it and all that, but boy can they = be vocal about it. It VERY QUICKLY delved into =E2=80=9CWaaahhh, we need= it because Trump will take away CNN!!!=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CWaahhhh, we= need it because Biden will take away Fox News!!!" >=20 > ---- > Andy Ringsmuth > 5609 Harding Drive > Lincoln, NE 68521-5831 > (402) 202-1230 > andy@andyring.com >=20 > =E2=80=9CA private central bank issuing the public currency is a great= er menace to the liberties of the people than a standing army. We must n= ot let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.=E2=80=9D -Thomas Jefferson >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >=20 --18b9a1f89a9d40f8a32a3a48d523bbac Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We don=E2=80=99= t really need to look that far to understand the risks =E2=80=94 all you= need to do is look at the =E2=80=9Czero rate=E2=80=9D plans that Facebo= ok and Google rolled out in countries outside the US, where heavily disc= ounted plans provided free access exclusively to their services, and cha= rging only to reach other Internet destinations.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, at 08:30, Andy Ringsmuth via Nnagain wrote:


> On Oct 1, 2023, at 8:34=E2=80=AFPM, dan via Nnaga= in <nnagain@lists.bu= fferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
>= I think a big problem with Net Neutrality is it's sort of a topic for p= roviders and not for end users.  Most end users have no concept of = what it is, why it's good or bad, and if they have a compliant service o= r not.  They confuse 'speed' with packet loss and latency.

Except that=E2=80=99s not true. During the Obama ye= ars when this was being talked about, TPTB (the powers that be) were abl= e to get a significant number of end users all whipped into a frenzy ove= r it, legitimately or not, and it was being hammered all over the media = and social networks.

Agreed, end users don=E2= =80=99t generally understand it on a technical level or the nuances of i= mplementing it and all that, but boy can they be vocal about it. It VERY= QUICKLY delved into =E2=80=9CWaaahhh, we need it because Trump will tak= e away CNN!!!=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CWaahhhh, we need it because Biden wil= l take away Fox News!!!"

----
Andy Ringsmuth
5609 Harding Drive
Lincoln, = NE 68521-5831
(402) 202-1230

=E2=80=9CA private central bank issuing the public currency is a grea= ter menace to the liberties of the people than a standing army. We must = not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.=E2=80=9D -Thomas Jeffers= on

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