From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net (mta3.ics-il.net [65.182.164.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 573413CB4C for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:44:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C7480095; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:44:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 0Aoxa49Lrpue; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:44:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E16A680111; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:44:26 -0500 (CDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net E16A680111 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ics-il.net; s=C00B5EF2-1A13-11E6-9265-5A85BB0A090D; t=1697377466; bh=QznByGAahjSNlGges3pMRINspHTfTTt0cM/zwsLWbhg=; h=Date:From:To:Message-ID:MIME-Version; b=0yWz++wt2YEn40t1Y8fRmhkZwqgBjK8EICz6O6E/8T3LQ2nftnKTXOMyLHsxdpEtX kES/VQH84QXT2P5hBK5QAOa+V72kNSRjTrooaY6Oxhvvh94YrsSCSrPnZhhTt8/7US hHzmlObGYRLWrXG0gNpgE0aSk2XUGHb60FRErwrw= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net Received: from zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id mGz0aK7gfSho; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:44:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from zimbra8-mailstore1.ics-il.net (Zimbra8-MailStore1.ics-il.net [10.1.8.63]) by zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839C380095; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:44:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:44:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Hammett To: Network Neutrality is back! =?utf-8?Q?Let=C2=B4s?= make the technical aspects heard this time! Message-ID: <1140707674.977.1697377460600.JavaMail.mhammett@Thunderfuck2> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_976_698612945.1697377460600" X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.8.15_GA_4508 (Zimbra Desktop/7.3.1_13063_Windows) Thread-Topic: transit and peering costs projections Thread-Index: irzjsVzt3+YO6NGyAdbCgBRHmimVsA== Subject: Re: [NNagain] transit and peering costs projections X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 13:44:28 -0000 ------=_Part_976_698612945.1697377460600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've seen some attempts to put an IX at every corner, but I don't think tho= se efforts will be overly successful.=20 It's still difficult to gain sufficient scale in NFL-sized cities. Big cont= ent won't join without big eyeballs (well, not the national-level guys beca= use they almost never will). Big eyeballs just can't be bothered. Small guy= s don't move the needle enough.=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Taht via Nnagain" =20 To: "Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects hear= d this time!" , "libreqos" , "NANOG" =20 Cc: "Dave Taht" =20 Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2023 6:01:54 PM=20 Subject: [NNagain] transit and peering costs projections=20 This set of trendlines was very interesting. Unfortunately the data=20 stops in 2015. Does anyone have more recent data?=20 https://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-= Projected.php=20 I believe a gbit circuit that an ISP can resell still runs at about=20 $900 - $1.4k (?) in the usa? How about elsewhere?=20 ...=20 I am under the impression that many IXPs remain very successful,=20 states without them suffer, and I also find the concept of doing micro=20 IXPs at the city level, appealing, and now achievable with cheap gear.=20 Finer grained cross connects between telco and ISP and IXP would lower=20 latencies across town quite hugely...=20 PS I hear ARIN is planning on dropping the price for, and bundling 3=20 BGP AS numbers at a time, as of the end of this year, also.=20 --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos=20 _______________________________________________=20 Nnagain mailing list=20 Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net=20 https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain=20 ------=_Part_976_698612945.1697377460600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; colo= r: #000000'>I've seen some attempts to put an IX at every corner, but I do= n't think those efforts will be overly successful.

It's still difficul= t to gain sufficient scale in NFL-sized cities. Big content won't join with= out big eyeballs (well, not the national-level guys because they almost nev= er will). Big eyeballs just can't be bothered. Small guys don't move the ne= edle enough.




From: "Dave Taht via Nnagain" <nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net>
To: "Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2= =B4s make the technical aspects heard this time!" <nnagain@lists.bufferb= loat.net>, "libreqos" <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>, "NANOG" &l= t;nanog@nanog.org>
Cc: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>=
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2023 6:01:54 PM
Subject: [= NNagain] transit and peering costs projections

This set of trendline= s was very interesting. Unfortunately the data
stops in 2015. Does anyon= e have more recent data?

https://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet= -Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php

I believe a gbit circu= it that an ISP can resell still runs at about
$900 - $1.4k (?) in the us= a? How about elsewhere?

...

I am under the impression that ma= ny IXPs remain very successful,
states without them suffer, and I also f= ind the concept of doing micro
IXPs at the city level, appealing, and no= w achievable with cheap gear.
Finer grained cross connects between telco= and ISP and IXP would lower
latencies across town quite hugely...
PS I hear ARIN is planning on dropping the price for, and bundling 3
B= GP AS numbers at a time, as of the end of this year, also.



-= -
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-b= of.html
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
________________________________= _______________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.nethttps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain

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