On Mar 21, 2024, at 18:24, rjmcmahon via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

Oh, how I wish that an open source programmer showing up on a white horse, with gnu emacs and a so-called "firmware" upgrade would fix all these issues. Sadly, likely not. (Also, many of us have been building systems with hot swap and active redundancy supporting live upgrades our entire careers. Then there is also BGP to deal with route changes. So, yes, here "rip and replace" is a b.s. title designed to drive passions of what's not always real!!)

A TLDR story (for those needing something, something not from chat gpt, to read at night.)

Early in my career we designed a router blade for an ethernet switch (very early days of ethernet switches.) The switch engineers did their work in ASICs and there was no merchant silicon in those days. The equipment market was vertical. We evaluated the various internal ASICs from the switch teams and made our selection. Note: The turn around of an ASIC can be in years so hw devices are what Amazon calls "one way doors." They call software "two way doors" as the counterpart. We were selling to the RBOCs, and in those days (not these FWA days,) the bell-heads really stressed five 9's of reliability. We needed "bug free" hw per these customer demands. So we did our homework and found the most reliable ASIC to interface into the switching fabric.

The linecard sold $350M in 1990s dollars in its first year. Then we got a call from the RBOC saying their NOC was having serious data flow problems. We went into their NOC, connected up all the gazintas and gazuotas to see what was going on.

Well, under certain conditions, that ASIC was causing the switching fabric to lose it's coherency with the switching decision ASIC. The switching decision was for a previous packet and not the actual packet. (Similar to what happened to some immigrants from Ellis Island that ended up in Houston, Texas vs Houston St in NYC. Seemed close but just not correct.)

Yikes! We exclaimed. So we immediately went to the hardware architect and asked for a rev for the ASIC w/o the bug. He said maybe in two years, but probably not, because the ASIC volume was too low to rev it.

We were up the proverbial creek. Then we came up with a software (or firmware) fix of watching via sampling the hw switching bus and the hw switching tables to see when they became incoherent. It was relatively infrequent, like a few times a month.

So what did we do to actually fix this? The old ctl-alt-delete salute of the switching system. Every packet in flight was dropped and TCP state machines everywhere were signaled to go back to slow start, even though this had nothing to do with TCP congestion.

This is a common practice by software to reset hardware when it loses its brain. This really is not a fix at all. The proper fix is to replace the buggy hardware, using active upgrade & swap approach and no firmware upgrade can do that when hw is too old for NRE spends. These are all just the way things really are from my experience.

Bob

I have been trying to point out for many years now, that a lot of
hardware can just have it's firmware replaced with something more
trustable, secure, reliable, and feature full. I was appalled at the
recent BOFO (?) rules that mandated buy american for secure .... glass
.... and totally ignored the firmware problem. I have not read up on
rip and replace progress below, and am afraid to, if someone could
summarize?
Ironically, I regard Huwai's compliance with the GPL, and general open
source contribution philosophy as exemplary in an industry that
seemingly has forgotten the benefits of openness or the copyright
provisions of that license.
The president of huwai once responded to complaints by promising to
open up all it's source code for inspection... (cannot find the link),
but the CISCOs of the world evaporated that possibility, and the mess
downstream of most chinese AND american manufacturers has to be
scanned to be believed.
... a lot of huwai's consumer gear can be reflashed to OpenWrt, which
is maintained by a group of very security concious folk, mostly based
in germany.
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Broadband Breakfast <news@broadbandcensus.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 9:23 AM
Subject: New Exclusive Report on 'Rip and Replace'
To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Broadband Breakfast Live Online Every Wednesday at 12 Noon ET
 View this email in your browser [1]
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&#39;RIP AND REPLACE&#39;
THE POLICY AND LAW BEHIND &#39;RIP AND REPLACE&#39; [3]
[4]
Emerging reports signal a growing concern among telecommunications
providers grappling with compliance to the Federal Communications
Commission's mandate to excise problematic equipment from certain
Chinese companies.
Amid this regulatory melange, providers are finding themselves at a
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At the heart of this unfolding scenario is the "rip and replace"
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nation's telecommunications infrastructure against potential espionage
and cyber threats.
This comprehensive effort  [6]not only mandates the purging of
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deemed security risks, but also underscores a pivotal shift towards
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As the FCC enforces this order, the ripple effects are palpable,
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setting a precedent for how national security considerations are
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_WHAT IS &#39;RIP AND REPLACE&#39;?_
The rip and replace initiative, officially part of the initiatives
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