From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from d.mail.sonic.net (d.mail.sonic.net [64.142.111.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 284023B29D for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 107-137-68-211.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net (104-182-38-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [104.182.38.69]) (authenticated bits=0) by d.mail.sonic.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 39RLme9p004303 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 27 Oct 2023 14:48:40 -0700 Received: from hgm (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by 107-137-68-211.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4FA28C20C; Fri, 27 Oct 2023 14:48:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.8 To: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_techn?= =?utf-8?q?ical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= From: Hal Murray In-Reply-To: Message from Dave Taht via Nnagain of "Fri, 27 Oct 2023 12:37:44 -0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 14:48:40 -0700 Message-Id: <20231027214840.7A4FA28C20C@107-137-68-211.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> X-Sonic-CAuth: UmFuZG9tSVZjkCi7k4Z352DvDTSOhW3lIX7DHEluEKGaeyCkhRSCnacyzDrd/de6kALT7ohwtHiOfrUkxQPKF0zSXBaYdSjMcPl0gt4dhYo= X-Sonic-ID: C;9iN3lxJ17hGruJ0CP63e0g== M;cvGMlxJ17hGruJ0CP63e0g== X-Spam-Flag: No X-Sonic-Spam-Details: -1.5/5.0 by cerberusd Subject: [NNagain] Spam filtering X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 21:48:43 -0000 [Was Amtrack] > 2) I could get mad that I figure 80% of this new email list is vanishing into > spam boxes. > What of the 10s of thousands of other emails that have come over the years > not just from lists.bufferbloat.net but from people trying honestly to > communicate? There is/was a good discussion of all the good things that network geeks have done. How about discussing the things they haven't done? Spam would be pretty high on my list. It's tangled up with (in)security -- a lot comes from infected systems or phished accounts. The current approach to spam is cost shifting. If you don't pay for your abuse desk, the crap that you send or phishing sites you host..., means that the rest of the net has to spend more on defense. Anybody remember Spamford Wallace? He was going to setup a spam friendly ISP. Nobody would connect to him. I wonder what would happen if a few ISPs that host a lot of abuse had more troubles getting connected to the net. Would a few well publicized examples be enough to spread the word? High on my list would be dis/mis-information. The business model seems to be to show customers things that will keep them online so you can show them more ads. Gues what does that? Is this also cost shifting? It's society as a whole that has to pay for the disruption caused by bogus information. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.