From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bosmailout05.eigbox.net (bosmailout05.eigbox.net [66.96.189.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB13B3CB48 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from bosmailscan01.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.1]) by bosmailout05.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1r46Fm-0004fi-BQ for nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:19:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alum.mit.edu; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:In-Reply-To:References:To:From:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=QW3BSQ8otVOZWbBXnzOrkvY1wfqEegY9yW4uy611yY4=; b=TVBg3bqoYCIYs5nMkqF5KMm846 R2VNLh2sFT7RWKM7Y+wdBr1A+AMd9gFcpREGsjf0+2+wPfPDRN+VH3V0LsigG1iYGSLld5a8WksiS yRBe1+M2TXVqIzXO4l0Jv3FVhgJ+bhgDJOA6sQxX+fO1DHc6cm6WN08Sub57RUWMo2Aj3R+7D9qiL 61Ac5jJppQOFmkdIPV2TXHmmZbQqnDw7amiXmj3o9+DMPbVL45ERyvV1nETidzOOxGAsGOUuyjtVX 2wD57zhQCfoaw1ZrGmoTAuJYbXIRjl9WfLFFuJdQtZspWbkv7p6XurIp/GLXlZKRfs6LUa7Y1ZnqD aqtgIM8Q==; Received: from [10.115.3.32] (helo=bosimpout12) by bosmailscan01.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1r46Fm-0002KT-3U for nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:19:54 -0500 Received: from bosauthsmtp17.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.17]) by bosimpout12 with id BZKr2B0020N5uqq01ZKu41; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:19:54 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=dOg9ZNRb c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=f4kFLigMKr8AH7rIJ//qJA==:117 a=tKttg/DTfI8zZz0UFxdR5w==:17 a=BNY50KLci1gA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=tWVM9v_f9_sjY5d-oooA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=SWgCouPg_qbhdm9FQToA:9 a=hmg2QYL4AbBqlOL0:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 Received: from c-73-158-253-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([73.158.253.41]:51640 helo=SRA6) by bosauthsmtp17.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1r46Fi-0005ED-MI for nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:19:50 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Dick Roy" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?pects_heard_this_time!'?= References: <938D9D45-DADA-4291-BD8A-84E4257CEE49@apple.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 13:19:46 -0800 Organization: SRA Message-ID: <31D2FC6FBC4F492182AF3B71B6B6DF0D@SRA6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0218_01DA1958.BEE0C930" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AdoZjB37Zucxt3C+RpK0N+bWoxhZYgADVt7A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE X-EN-UserInfo: f809475445fb8041985048e338e1a001:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: dickroy@intellicommunications.com Sender: "Dick Roy" X-EN-OrigIP: 73.158.253.41 X-EN-OrigHost: c-73-158-253-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net Subject: Re: [NNagain] A quick report from the WISPA conference X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 21:19:54 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0218_01DA1958.BEE0C930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ... >=20 > T-Mobile has signed up 1m+ people to their new Home Internet over 5G, = and all of them have really meaningful bufferbloat issues. I've been = pointing folks who reach out to this thread about cake-autorate and sqm-autorate, = but ideally it would be fixed at a network level, just not sure how to apply pressure (I'm in contact with the T-Mobile Home Internet team, but I = think this is above their heads). [RR] While there may indeed be a bufferbloat issue, it is also very = possibly a capacity problem. T-mobile=92s home internet offering is at 600MHz = where the maximum downlink speeds are around 17Mbps (aggregate) assuming that = the entire 35MHz of available spectrum is used and its about 10Mbps per user = on the uplink. It=92s a little complicated because =85 . (This assumes QPSK encoding and a coding rate around 0.7. You can double those capacity = numbers roughly for 16-QAM however the range will drop dramatically.) The point = is that when there are N users in a =93sector=94 (beamforming can be used = though I am not sure whether T-mobile does or not), each user gets on average = 17/N Mbps downlink, and can compete for access to 10/N Mbps uplink. If N is = on the order of 100, you can see that transmission rates are severely = limited. I have first hand experience of this. When my download speeds come to a screeching halt on my iPhome, e.g. when I am downloading an app from = that app store, all I have to do is look at the top of my screen, and EVERY = TIME it says =85 drum roll please =85 =93Lucky you! You are now on our latest = and greatest 5G network!=94 OK, it just indicates =935G=94, but either way, = I want to throw this iPhone through some t_Mobile store window! :-):-) =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0218_01DA1958.BEE0C930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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> T-Mobile has signed up 1m+ people to their new Home = Internet over 5G, and all of them have really meaningful bufferbloat issues. I've been pointing folks who reach out to this thread about cake-autorate and sqm-autorate, but ideally it would be fixed at a network level, just not = sure how to apply pressure (I'm in contact with the T-Mobile Home Internet = team, but I think this is above their heads).

[RR] While there may indeed be a bufferbloat issue, it is also very possibly a = capacity problem. =A0T-mobile’s home internet offering is at 600MHz where = the maximum downlink speeds are around 17Mbps (aggregate) assuming that the entire 35MHz of = available spectrum is used and its about 10Mbps per user on the uplink. It’s = a little complicated because … . (This assumes QPSK encoding and a coding rate around = 0.7. You can double those capacity numbers roughly for 16-QAM however the range will = drop dramatically.) The point is that when there are N users in a = “sector” (beamforming can be used though I am not sure whether T-mobile does or = not), each user gets on average 17/N Mbps downlink, and can compete for access = to 10/N Mbps uplink. =A0If N is on the order of 100, you can see that = transmission rates are severely limited. =A0I have first hand experience of this.=A0 When = my download speeds come to a screeching halt on my iPhome, e.g. when I am = downloading an app from that app store, all I have to do is look at the top of my = screen, and EVERY TIME it says … drum roll please … “Lucky you! = You are now on our latest and greatest 5G network!” =A0OK, it just indicates = “5G”, but either way, I want to throw this iPhone through some t_Mobile store window! = JJ =A0

 

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