From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bosmailout05.eigbox.net (bosmailout05.eigbox.net [66.96.189.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5956B3CB37 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 16:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from bosmailscan04.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.4]) by bosmailout05.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1r2eB1-0004N6-R5 for nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 16:08:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alum.mit.edu; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:In-Reply-To:References:To:From:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=DXeWKFYN0QnbvOX2iXDrO7/mQ7r3Q3ayy7oZ9aVjgH8=; b=VnXpzYntqD1rGyi5o8HPwdJIJ1 EV4JkauSz/ADlqA4WxSZ0khDsdDjaQqHu5JnBLbvIekcqgMLXYxZok3SZ65P16AqPmDdouQZAVqs4 qx6HGtH9WlqnpR3bKFhcQfRMBENENVIoEsJpeq99Z4Cs0I4PqCuJ26u5oiCyPxdd66ct0HD2OCuHy P5Si27WSuUL5WdDeUgkVNKxMrlgZ6elhyg2uUM/ewfxT9wJcTAq5CAUW/rd1DISXgZqM2HMVgRuSi BXvwoJUf7CfnEbgx+pKEP//mvb5nKEA2R7pzSkLPH4B6uCzAMujq6DHjxOTVeXk4FZN+XFcLb6YSh UMgGIzIQ==; Received: from [10.115.3.33] (helo=bosimpout13) by bosmailscan04.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1r2eB1-0005uj-Ix for nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 16:08:59 -0500 Received: from bosauthsmtp17.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.17]) by bosimpout13 with id 9x8w2B00B0N5uqq01x8ziM; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 16:08:59 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Q6tJH7+a c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=f4kFLigMKr8AH7rIJ//qJA==:117 a=tKttg/DTfI8zZz0UFxdR5w==:17 a=X0lo_nVYqhSgko1G:21 a=BNY50KLci1gA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=kurRqvosAAAA:8 a=-8zSTgJoSzugexAlF24A:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=KO7c6ZygucudHEdeLQMA:9 a=5OsfDBDNtuFJJFg6:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=kbxRQ_lfPIoQnHsAj2-A:22 a=ihnO7ynG1PjbAwmEH3V-:22 Received: from c-73-158-253-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([73.158.253.41]:54660 helo=SRA6) by bosauthsmtp17.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1r2eAx-0007Ob-Pa for nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 16:08:56 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Dick Roy" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?pects_heard_this_time!'?= References: <6318C91C-A664-464E-8A9E-4C2A0FFD9C05@comcast.com> <4154C0D8-EF61-4483-97F9-7CDE82CD803D@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4154C0D8-EF61-4483-97F9-7CDE82CD803D@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:08:52 -0800 Organization: SRA Message-ID: <35F467F6DA3F419FA78DA6BBB236030D@SRA6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07EC_01DA1632.8EF72B70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AdoWPK+Nky8Wlj30Q+yVR8QJRQiklAAOCJFQ x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE X-EN-UserInfo: f809475445fb8041985048e338e1a001:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: dickroy@intellicommunications.com Sender: "Dick Roy" X-EN-OrigIP: 73.158.253.41 X-EN-OrigHost: c-73-158-253-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net Subject: Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 21:09:00 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07EC_01DA1632.8EF72B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf = Of Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 6:15 AM To: Network Neutrality is back! Let=B4s make the technical aspects heard = this time! Cc: Sebastian Moeller Subject: Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble =20 Hi Jason, =20 =20 > On Nov 13, 2023, at 08:54, Livingood, Jason via Nnagain wrote: >=20 > > Would love to spend some time thinking together about what a smart manufacturing system would look like in terms of connectivity, latency, compute availability, anything that occurs to you. I know a guy who does devops for factories, and he has amazing stories -- might be good to = make that connection as well.=20 > =20 > One of the L4S (low latency, low loss, scalable throughput) demos that Nokia did at a recent IETF hackathon showed a simulated 5G access = network to do low latency remote control of cranes in an industrial port facility. = It seemed like one of their points was that you could remotely operate = cargo container movements with the crane via a remote workforce over a low = delay network connection - even with fairly limited bandwidth (they=92d adjust = the throughput down to just a few hundred kbps). > =20 > While they did not say much more, I could envision a port operator = being able to gain more efficiency by enabling a skilled operator to control cranes at several ports around the world on an as-needed basis (vs. = being based in 1 port and having some downtime or low utilization of their skills/training), even from the comfort of home. =20 =20 I would stop doing business with such ports... there clearly are accidents (or sabotage/jamming) just waiting to happen using wireless connections for such use-cases... Yes, I understand that that is what = Nokia sells, so everything looks like a nail to them, but really "caveat = emptor", just because something can be done does not mean it should be done as well...=20 =20 Regards Sebastian =20 P.S.: Currently in the US for a conference, getting reminded how shitty GSM/LTE can be, heck the conference WiFi (with 25K attendees) is more responsive than GSM... I am sure 5G might be better, but my phone is LTE only... [RR] Welcome to the =93club=94! We in the US have been dealing with = this for over 30 years =85 why you ask???? ... answer =85 CDMA and the IPR behind = it! It was and still is =93all about the money!=94. My phone has 5G and when = download rates plummet to the floor, all I have to do is look at the top of the display, and lo and behold =85 I=92m on 5G!!! If you believe 5G is going = to be better, I have a bridge for you that =93is going to be soooo much = better=94 :-):-):-) =20 RR =20 =20 =20 =20 > =20 > Jason > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain =20 _______________________________________________ Nnagain mailing list Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain ------=_NextPart_000_07EC_01DA1632.8EF72B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf = Of Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 6:15 AM
To: Network Neutrality is back! Let=B4s make the technical aspects heard = this time!
Cc: Sebastian Moeller
Subject: Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom = bubble

 

Hi Jason,

 

 

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 08:54, Livingood, Jason via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> = wrote:

>

> > Would love to spend some time thinking together about = what a smart manufacturing system would look like in terms of connectivity, = latency, compute availability, anything that occurs to you. I know a guy who does = devops for factories, and he has amazing stories -- might be good to make that connection as well.

>=A0

> One of the L4S (low latency, low loss, scalable throughput) = demos that Nokia did at a recent IETF hackathon showed a simulated 5G access = network to do low latency remote control of cranes in an industrial port = facility. It seemed like one of their points was that you could remotely operate = cargo container movements with the crane via a remote workforce over a low = delay network connection - even with fairly limited bandwidth (they’d = adjust the throughput down to just a few hundred = kbps).

>=A0

> While they did not say much more, I could envision a port = operator being able to gain more efficiency by enabling a skilled operator to = control cranes at several ports around the world on an as-needed basis (vs. = being based in 1 port and having some downtime or low utilization of their skills/training), even from the comfort of = home.

 

 

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I would stop doing business with such ports... = there clearly are accidents (or sabotage/jamming) just waiting to happen using wireless connections for such use-cases... Yes, I understand that that is what = Nokia sells, so everything looks like a nail to them, but really "caveat emptor", just because something can be done does not mean it should = be done as well...

 

Regards

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Sebastian

 

P.S.: Currently in the US for a conference, = getting reminded how shitty GSM/LTE can be, heck the conference WiFi (with 25K = attendees) is more responsive than GSM... I am sure 5G might be better, but my = phone is LTE only...

[RR] = Welcome to the “club”! =A0We in the US have been dealing with this for over 30 years … why you ask???? = ... answer … CDMA and the IPR behind it! =A0It was and still is “all about the = money!”. My phone has 5G and when download rates plummet to the floor, all I have to do is = look at the top of the display, and lo and behold … I’m on 5G!!! = If you believe 5G is going to be better, I have a bridge for you that “is going to = be soooo much better” JJJ

 =

RR

 =

=A0

 

 

>=A0

> Jason

>=A0

> = _______________________________________________<= /p>

> Nnagain mailing list

> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net

> = https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain

 

_______________________________________________=

Nnagain mailing list

Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net

https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain<= /font>

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