From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail10.out.titan.email (mail10.out.titan.email [3.226.153.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67AC43CB37 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:47:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out.flockmail.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-out.flockmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E42C7E0220; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:47:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; bh=v20hD4s1LD+JPBY3vCoZY1hZxhTWQF2+I4xCum8hWtk=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=3kitty.org; h=from:in-reply-to:message-id:to:mime-version:references:date:subject:from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references:cc:reply-to; q=dns/txt; s=titan1; t=1710434847; v=1; b=Z0dUVZWcxMKzGmW6uNvVlug+FqlxRtp0flBW6ZoQeEFF9HlBkbgZahFHlEi3Q6nZxy+0m8qv GSFlUuexspFAD+K6pDMXkV75HszaIGSvwWAzOl26zSY71u95xUe8qzOVM6CbykQI4ZLmJNvZrSi yJbFNaLWn2QtcKI/tAogY5X4= Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-76-137-180-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.137.180.175]) by smtp-out.flockmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7CB11E052C; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:47:27 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <38bd1996-e38c-4a7f-bcad-cc8888d2ee26@3kitty.org> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:47:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net References: Content-Language: en-US Feedback-ID: :jack@3kitty.org:3kitty.org:flockmailId From: Jack Haverty Autocrypt: addr=jack@3kitty.org; keydata= xsDNBGCm2psBDADGOWO8n9wfkDW9ZUEo8o+SZ5MU9us2il+fS4EFM/RaZFIbQ+P72bExzSd3 WnJdPfqO1O7Q+dRnvVO9+G2/9oT/uRZVaE05+SothzKZBv32HcZoUkdNZOTqSkdo3EwNPjid LLxX+dMBxMpR3pBdvGN8Z7lnZe6fV4QO2xtd58y3B33AVZJp+RuNwucby9dY2meyy2BJVKrx mKhYXAucVyg0ALVIchHt9UknVW4aLvQF+oMfzXVvCWeguW+DvbyazVceWGO7FSgUJ8ED3Ii7 xAR5zZJ1LASoMhG1ixg07P9Uy4ohV6c+c0yV9SY4yqhZ3+zN2cm9h/aXpwjSuiVVAJbK7zzb FjI+h89dbnaVQrLx6GikV0OVYqC6TCeMfCFZQAJLs1icxQi3BLL7O1fbTGatEfTgLa5nqfKq K/D/HlOCUeFxqZI8hXvT5dG4e1m3ilpF2/ytcWKSVg3d699UFntPv3sEbAQwwfXsnuD4Hem6 0Ao0/z41n8x1aeZE80FdkpEAEQEAAc0eSmFjayBIYXZlcnR5IDxqYWNrQDNraXR0eS5vcmc+ wsEJBBMBCAAzFiEEZLvMn5vmvTAlFEILdGzDIkA7jlAFAmCm2pwCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsC BRYCAwEAAAoJEHRswyJAO45QuX0L/jOluv8fr/BmuEEQsWWGW6oARIbjDQrI93kXIJXuPnfp tGjkx/f1TMIzI2B9s/tejiYE7IZOhWbX1YvKF0UbkSJi50UyV9XtYRnLdD5TcksKB4luDF8S R+nj5WBm17Bp8qwriCMgA1jGL2wQ7J1KUw4Q/gsMcjhn/39PevswkriU2qqVplfCs9yTTMU5 SvtE2U9F3Y1ZINHn3kUysvxhRFd+Oh3PocWHmVE+hkII+qsra6z4eztDgoB+vqxmOJEdtvex GhT8OKu74DacguZVfu/AV+cwpX701sdjJrMyKjcv8uhFLM/E5gf6kSUAFxBVwe6pNDmAgmbS c0fAFrZjgXxNxxndpu/8OAUDVzKg+l5WJ0nWss9Q14BwA+FcoclO3lwzFu7jOiLvkm7jQkFB o+p8Owe4iAED1KK/aocIa/RiD4sZ3KXUJ92kkemZ1Qe2XpFVdzxaQDG0huNkc5Mie9rdt62O Ae+5cYdPeWmBVn+pFNs5H09kQQbVR5pUxe2Aps7AzQRgptqcAQwAzzougHNMFr/O/L8HnNJW 1YyOuX0PEVNUXQPwkxKuD8bAXsPr4Hv1a+840ByesiJSadhQgVSMruRqoQC5tTkbEWkqlfDW waNAdqCJOXl2T6gtK7RpcHNx7+/du/gCAhHOXqH1Qfs0Zi3YEbR/kQFRP3wD4GiCvHSny8zJ X9plIHqQGoE5DePNAtE2KimbFMsjguqJgq5x0tMf3qEaMNd0IGTStGpcC49iss71slotH091 Y1Yo9CpzL6rj8IP0BfssEujAvf3Gbf1oi92JRE3s2humFDfPvSlHmRIfWPQ4qFOw1zmlzsV1 eg83gErKbjaDdkbwQA85RTmMVKNVvonM80WB6jAg8tlJ5VlYlpbzASpJRNj+FL1LLBQxCbPU eFwrzqYgNvtdKR7j5nTgdndCxq+2aws/aAjdL10S8yeH7ZOpNPzjDJfMSt/L1O25zPUhXdQC 9AZNYsfyV7rf+POEgVpIEth1fT9WbmS0rZxRd/+y628n31GicbA+teN890vdABEBAAHCwPYE GAEIACAWIQRku8yfm+a9MCUUQgt0bMMiQDuOUAUCYKbanQIbDAAKCRB0bMMiQDuOUF1LC/4q 4pLtmDt6TIET2H7zGj5ie3ng7kC7YqtFPYwgLQzs9WeqQ/5WowEmHOPonBcqhGbtDj22GebQ 7w0RoUHb+aXsbC85I/C+nWgT1ZcfMBTHGlBcIQvOCNG18g87Ha9jgD0HnW4bRUkZmGMpP0Yd TLM+PBNu41AK6z82VPQrfTuPKqwAAS2FK/RpF2xB7rjpETzIPl9Dj9EAkRbviURIg0BQkmej l02FLzGmlTfBIDHBdEgzvD71Z5H9BP8DAbxBzonSTzx/KZyv7njSUzdVLW+5O/WzPgb4Qt4I jQd66LS9HWS1G7AcLjiSQAIf8v7JkX3NwtN+NGX5cmt2p0e9FOOKWXVgCIgPN3/712EEGAgq UUxuPEBD5DrRCgjZL40eHxQza2BAhoVoWopUCGZdCCZJP3iF7818wIph0U393DELG9NAGLJa qkoA8KBimXp9Rd2QvpA864JRy/REoEOEF9lm3clriLyEqaL/VMIQRhl/VSkUuez4Wr68eHus TFdwePg= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------ZyX0d7IKFQqXSq9jYNcPKytp" X-F-Verdict: SPFVALID X-Titan-Src-Out: 1710434847821371345.4197.1211101057798394610@prod-use1-smtp-out1004. X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=d4zzywjE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=65f32a1f a=cdvcmBiFVbz+0Uto4GLkPg==:117 a=cdvcmBiFVbz+0Uto4GLkPg==:17 a=CEWIc4RMnpUA:10 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=6bY3rzaHsEmGbW0q-AUA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=6i1rQhbfrTf845ujm-UA:9 a=G-YCp8yklDImPbif:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=mVcgwxjBTkr3zjpDlhIA:9 a=FfaGCDsud1wA:10 a=aSHc68OvetfGJIo3q9sA:9 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Subject: Re: [NNagain] NTIA: national spectrum strategy X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 16:47:28 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------ZyX0d7IKFQqXSq9jYNcPKytp Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------bWkk0SSima2NmpJrIyyKEc52"; protected-headers="v1" From: Jack Haverty To: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net Message-ID: <38bd1996-e38c-4a7f-bcad-cc8888d2ee26@3kitty.org> Subject: Re: [NNagain] NTIA: national spectrum strategy References: In-Reply-To: --------------bWkk0SSima2NmpJrIyyKEc52 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------AKvtEW065607weX10cSioyMO" --------------AKvtEW065607weX10cSioyMO Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------vx4nsLMefzisfZtxQgClf4Pw" --------------vx4nsLMefzisfZtxQgClf4Pw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T24gMy8xNC8yNCAwNToxNiwgRGF2ZSBUYWh0IHZpYSBObmFnYWluIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBJbiBv dGhlciBuZXdzLCB0aGUgSG91c2Ugdm90ZWQgdG8gYmFuIHRpa3RvayB5ZXN0ZXJkYXkuICBJ IGRvIG5vdA0KPiB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIGhvdyBzaW11bHRhbmVvdXNseSwNCj4gd2UgY2FuIGFj Y2VwdCBzZWN1cml0eSBjYW1lcmFzIChsYXJnZWx5IGJ1aWx0IGFyb3VuZCBMaW51eCBhbmQN Cj4gdmlvbGF0aW5nIHRoZSBHUEwpIGFsc28gYnVpbHQgZWxzZXdoZXJlLA0KPiBvciBJb1Qs IG9yIGhvbWUgcm91dGVycyByaWZlIHdpdGggQ1ZFcy4uLg0KTXkgbmFpdmUgZXhwbGFuYXRp b24tLS0NCg0KUG9saWN5LW1ha2VycyBzZWVtIHRvIGZvY3VzIG9uIGhvdyB0ZWNobm9sb2d5 IGlzIHVzZWQuwqDCoMKgIFRvIA0KcG9saWN5LW1ha2VycywgIlRoZSBJbnRlcm5ldCIgaXMg YSBwb29ybHkgdW5kZXJzdG9vZCB0ZWNobm9sb2d5IHdpdGggDQptYW55IHBvc3NpYmxlIHVz ZXMuwqAgV2hvZXZlciBhbmQgd2hlcmV2ZXIgIndlIiBhcmUsIG91ciBwb2xpY3ktbWFrZXJz IA0KY3JlYXRlIGxhd3MgYW5kIHJlZ3VsYXRpb25zIHRvIGNvbnN0cmFpbiB0aG9zZSB1c2Vz LiBGb3IgZXZlcnkgIndlIiANCnRoZXJlIGlzIGxpa2VseSBhIG51bWJlciBvZiAidGhlbSIu DQoNClNlY3VyaXR5IGNhbWVyYXMgYWxsb3cgInRoZW0iIHRvIHNweSBvbiB1cy7CoCBUaGF0 J3MgZ2VuZXJhbGx5IGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgDQpiYWQsIGJ1dCBhcHBhcmVudGx5IG5vdCBhcyBi YWQgYXMgU29jaWFsIE1lZGlhLCB3aGljaCBhbGxvd3MgInRoZW0iIHRvIA0KY29udHJvbCB1 cywgYnkgZmxvb2RpbmcgdXMgd2l0aCBtaXNpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgZGlzaW5mb3JtYXRpb24s IGFuZCB3aGF0IA0Kd2UgY3VyaW91c2x5IGNhbGwgInNwYW0iLsKgwqAgV2hlbiBhZHZlcnRp c2VycyBvciBldmVuIG91ciBnb3Zlcm5tZW50IGRvZXMgDQppdCwgaXQncyBPSy7CoCBXaGVu ICJ0aGV5IiBkbyBpdCwgaXQncyBiYWQuDQoNClNweWluZyBvZiBjb3Vyc2UgYWxzbyBhbGxv d3MgInVzIiB0byBzcHkgb24gInVzIiBhcyB3ZWxsLsKgIFRoYXQncyANCmFwcGFyZW50bHkg bm90IGFzIGJhZCBhcyBhbGxvd2luZyAidGhlbSIgdG8gY29udHJvbCAidXMiLCBlc3BlY2lh bGx5IGlmIA0Kd2UgY2FuIGNyZWF0ZSBwb2xpY3kgdGhhdCByZXRhaW5zIHRoZSBhYmlsaXR5 IGZvciAidXMiIHRvIGV4ZXJ0IGNvbnRyb2wgDQpvbiAidXMiIHdoaWxlIHByZXZlbnRpbmcg InRoZW0iIGZyb20gY29tbXVuaWNhdGluZyB3aXRoICJ1cyIuwqDCoCBUaG9zZSANCnRlY2hp ZXMgc2ltcGx5IGhhdmUgdG8gZmlndXJlIG91dCBob3cgdG8gbWFrZSBpdCBoYXBwZW4uDQoN CkkgcGVyc29uYWxseSBkbyBub3QgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCBob3cgIm5ldHdvcmsgbmV1dHJhbGl0 eSIgcmVsYXRlcyB0byBvdGhlciANCnBvbGljaWVzLsKgIFBlcmhhcHMgaXQgY29uZmxpY3Rz IHdpdGggb3RoZXIgcG9saWNpZXMgc3VjaCBhcyBvbmUgdGhhdCANCm91dGxhd3MgY29tbXVu aWNhdGlvbnMgYmFzZWQgb24gb3duZXJzaGlwIG9mIGEgY29tcGFueT8NCg0KSmFjayBIYXZl cnR5DQoNCg== --------------vx4nsLMefzisfZtxQgClf4Pw Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/14/24 05:16, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote:
In other news, the House voted to ban tiktok yesterday.  I do =
not
understand how simultaneously,
we can accept security cameras (largely built around Linux and
violating the GPL) also built elsewhere,
or IoT, or home routers rife with CVEs...
My naive explanation---

Policy-makers seem to focus on how technology is used.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 To policy-makers, "The Internet" is a poorly understood technology with many possible uses.=C2=A0 Whoever and wherever "we" are, our policy-makers create laws and regulations to constrain those uses.=C2= =A0=C2=A0 For every "we" there is likely a number of "them".

Security cameras allow "them" to spy on us.=C2=A0 That's generally considered bad, but apparently not as bad as Social Media, which allows "them" to control us, by flooding us with misinformation, disinformation, and what we curiously call "spam".=C2=A0=C2=A0 When advertisers or even our government does it, it's OK.=C2=A0 When "they= " do it, it's bad.

Spying of course also allows "us" to spy on "us" as well.=C2=A0 That'= s apparently not as bad as allowing "them" to control "us", especially if we can create policy that retains the ability for "us" to exert control on "us" while preventing "them" from communicating with "us".=C2=A0=C2=A0 Those techies simply have to figure out how to make= it happen.

I personally do not understand how "network neutrality" relates to other policies.=C2=A0 Perhaps it conflicts with other policies such a= s one that outlaws communications based on ownership of a company?

Jack Haverty

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