From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2EAB3CB37 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:22 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1699884917; x=1700489717; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=SWb/PNqU/HDrOpiYU2QYT4jgALF7tIuxhpFbqbFCQgk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References: To; b=Ll0kYkP3TzoUvWZcyoo/SO274UEhPGXfOYUyNdRufcD/iMsGLklEo4NGYFYhReUr 0MaR9ODu9Z6pSzI7K4RStTDLmIkS4RuHO/wMGq3LrMsfHQx+A2UTxH+QGbk0kvjPH Zm/M281l7h5fnioTMnXNCn3kybwiCcNmzKrF4Nldm3OWD3D/iSQtf4mYqzsrwfqpQ DF1wvEXQXl8rzmBoBip4EmLnbfLWfLLgpIYmNZ/8P1doV9pWEXKhl4cgmqx6bPnsD NUPU4LLhUWT7E8CAYbk9OB3xqExKkChLlN8mhxBQT1X3OwHvujkPP/YrFxDNC+eOB C7qiuONlgcmmz1z3LA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([208.115.85.96]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MhlKy-1rXUoe1qW8-00djmX; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 15:15:17 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.4\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <6318C91C-A664-464E-8A9E-4C2A0FFD9C05@comcast.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:14 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4154C0D8-EF61-4483-97F9-7CDE82CD803D@gmx.de> References: <6318C91C-A664-464E-8A9E-4C2A0FFD9C05@comcast.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?utf-8?Q?pects_heard_this_time!?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.4) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ekvoUXRP8PrfES3DDqP8dqx8nmHZg/e+ecnHeyuwPuaDAZtJMwK 0ruGMgwJzcAma4SolOoSD9PKwMWmXVzt0N3QV4zHGEB/RNdMkYzBxv1JQTLfM6aV+N4Aa5M oJUMsZ79JlnRBBT0IJdRPw1tNTc5E9BPLj2Gzihwc036CzOggoKY5tPz+upI9fC71KQxMub 5botjZ1vqwfxhdLCyYJEg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:1qAyRZVKgJE=;uiONwjkuc6nLMxGJlv1ZqpP4Dpo mNhZhkSyzkfa4fyJxrBvWOBIHR5Jsci6Ms4ewcuw1//+Yjp+zWng34QOq5gwOMnXABvhpAai4 UnFgR4dgX7iwHWlX26j6p2DPrHLshZRT3rwIQ1dFSCUTYxN/xf9zJFwZ72FqpGdQSxjKFjycv B6+E9fhTV3OK5ms4KsLOaxIXOpVYf3CPNQxrmzJcHwpvEVIMjhidMs0pUlchy8/t1je1zTJZy zBVy+N6IaD+Lh7ns3FCGc299wguKRYMGXcDoYF5xivn6853klmpjxu0hAs9WFAW5dG9dsSq8k TRE9NWVG6z3D39mkJ+S6AGBCDoo1/fyIcANyuIrTDwL0BKM0+TBYbbIJ+HQiwhKinimeUOuh6 Wv8J7Gdrj1BpJXg/WlOJu1pid6UgNQJ/Li2/gkZ27BvVB86C61uUjEeK7lmPMz57OWyWNlrz+ OXW0CjljkzWmrg6aF2p6hjjmLzy0nw+68/wcO6fMto5w45altaPKXzko3MvsKOpYYMbX6m0hK aJEck9lbp12zZ2THlyeLLKzuv3hpDYYubxsBKFO0XnjJLBWMlILYxPscnRpCSLxQ1Wwu4nzO9 lxUlOZWwHvhR0XNcA9aQjZmVhFEYk63pYaND7abBgZQAYrzxGWLnS2so/BBDJ2hemwyUKo3td ivDAgIPEmKzg+jgextMbudUkTfVzU6W5jNXe0hKMwSJOEqgo98CvHF1/ezzkzgoEhA0s6jrOh Kv4AvuYMVChsEc7EoRKmmatGwhke//ui1q0KKFCvZ5MQZKAIFSbQuPbRbY2Fq0PHe4eEPT47J gc7cq9/ZCU8S99dSCA4YBprXGEPy6NRu/siXmlEex5scNh1A9alfoznknzOms7+a904CKo5tQ E7XmmmmNUGYIUls3BQQ12avvn19EzMYqAuPyu4FCxekylzNOKaMWYB0YmWwV8cHMnwGGLvasE pLNy6lNvh7C2JqtR+DhS55S2oQE= Subject: Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 14:15:23 -0000 Hi Jason, > On Nov 13, 2023, at 08:54, Livingood, Jason via Nnagain = wrote: >=20 > > Would love to spend some time thinking together about what a smart = manufacturing system would look like in terms of connectivity, latency, = compute availability, anything that occurs to you. I know a guy who does = devops for factories, and he has amazing stories -- might be good to = make that connection as well.=20 > =20 > One of the L4S (low latency, low loss, scalable throughput) demos that = Nokia did at a recent IETF hackathon showed a simulated 5G access = network to do low latency remote control of cranes in an industrial port = facility. It seemed like one of their points was that you could remotely = operate cargo container movements with the crane via a remote workforce = over a low delay network connection - even with fairly limited bandwidth = (they=E2=80=99d adjust the throughput down to just a few hundred kbps). > =20 > While they did not say much more, I could envision a port operator = being able to gain more efficiency by enabling a skilled operator to = control cranes at several ports around the world on an as-needed basis = (vs. being based in 1 port and having some downtime or low utilization = of their skills/training), even from the comfort of home. I would stop doing business with such ports... there clearly are = accidents (or sabotage/jamming) just waiting to happen using wireless = connections for such use-cases... Yes, I understand that that is what = Nokia sells, so everything looks like a nail to them, but really "caveat = emptor", just because something can be done does not mean it should be = done as well...=20 Regards Sebastian P.S.: Currently in the US for a conference, getting reminded how shitty = GSM/LTE can be, heck the conference WiFi (with 25K attendees) is more = responsive than GSM... I am sure 5G might be better, but my phone is LTE = only...=20 > =20 > Jason > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain