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[157.131.220.97]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id jc5-20020a17090325c500b001bf8779e051sm7546493plb.289.2023.10.15.22.32.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 15 Oct 2023 22:32:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Eugene Y Chang Message-Id: <4295E745-73DB-4237-8366-9FC3D8FA2896@ieee.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_38AC3A1F-1E72-4C9A-B158-161427B1915D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.4\)) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 22:32:20 -0700 In-Reply-To: To: thejoff@mail.com, =?utf-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?utf-8?Q?pects_heard_this_time!?= References: <851ba854e9bec33e55bbc7f3afd9e798@rjmcmahon.com> <725892E7-A50E-4B13-BDF6-B5F6721E82F9@ieee.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.4) Subject: Re: [NNagain] if you had a billion dollars X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 05:32:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_38AC3A1F-1E72-4C9A-B158-161427B1915D Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_37146BB0-1429-43E2-8941-3FFDC6C08890" --Apple-Mail=_37146BB0-1429-43E2-8941-3FFDC6C08890 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:20 AM, le berger des photons via Nnagain = wrote: >=20 > Gene, you seem to have missed the part where the psychopaths who run = the society have made most scientists believe things which just ain't = true. You talk about seeing gravity waves, and you probably refuse to = imagine that gravity is an unlimited source of energy which we can = exploit and send the psychopaths packing except that they've fooled most = of the people who think of themselves as scientists so that they can = control a miserable world rather than participate in a dream world. Do = you think I'm mistaken? Wow, there are a lot of thoughts packed in here. I don=E2=80=99t have a theory for understanding psychopaths I know of a few influential psychopaths, but I don=E2=80=99t know if any = of those =E2=80=9Cwho run the society=E2=80=9D I don=E2=80=99t know how to qualitatively believe "most scientists = believe things which just ain=E2=80=99t true=E2=80=9D There might be =E2=80=9Csome=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Ca few=E2=80=9D. Which = scientist are you thinking about? Yes, we have built a machine to measure and visualize gravity waves. Why would I refuse to IMAGINE "that gravity is an unlimited source of = energy"? I suspect the energy density in a gravity wave might not be useful to = us. But that is my speculation Could you sketch out how gravity energy can be extracted in useful = quantities? As to =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6which we can exploit and send=E2=80=A6 and send = the psychopaths packing=E2=80=A6 rather than participate in a dream = world.=E2=80=9D I have no way to understand that chain of thoughts. It is just too = terse. It is a string of sound bites that I can=E2=80=99t interpret. = What are you trying to make me think or feel? Is it written by ChatGPT? If you had a billion dollars=E2=80=A6 what would you do with it? How much money would approximate =E2=80=9Can unlimited source of = energy=E2=80=9D? If you had an unlimited source of money, what would you do with it? Can you now send psychopaths packing? Is unlimited still not enough because of all the fooled scientists? =F0=9F=A7=90 Gene >=20 > On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 6:43=E2=80=AFAM Eugene Y Chang via Nnagain = > = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Oct 14, 2023, at 4:35 PM, Dave Taht > wrote: >>=20 >> That is lovely. I too would like to find a place to logout for a long = while. >=20 > You missed my point. I didn=E2=80=99t mean to suggest a logout for = anyone. >=20 > Being connected to reality and life is hard work. > Many people distrust science and engineering because they don=E2=80=99t = appreciate how every sophisticated technology and abstract facts are = connected to observations from the human senses back when we studied = natural philosophy. This is the chain of observations spanning thousands = of years and generations. Eventually, that body of knowledge was called = science. Every technical fact we know can be traced back through this = chain of human observations. Along the way, we build tools to extend our = senses. Now, we can =E2=80=9Csee=E2=80=9D and measure electron positions = and gravity waves. It is not magic and belief. It is the chain of hard = work by many people. >=20 > Similarly, connecting our individual emotions and values to society, = to the world, and to the universe is hard work. It takes us beyond our = animal instincts. In Zen, this effort is the work to achieve = enlightenment. >=20 > Gene >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> 172 thoughts left to come in! >>=20 >> /me makes mental push for everyone to check their spam folders >> (was this list coming in as spam?) >>=20 >> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 3:54=E2=80=AFPM Eugene Y Chang = > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Build an institute to teach an appreciation of natural philosophy = and Zen. >>> (I need to think more about generalizing alternative development to = spiritual connections.) >>> Many people have lost (or lack) a connection to both approaches to = reality. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Gene >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> Eugene Chang >>> IEEE Senior Life Member >>> eugene.chang@ieee.org >>> m 781-799-0233 (in Honolulu) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Oct 14, 2023, at 4:00 AM, Dave Taht via Nnagain = > = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Thank you! 173 people left to weigh in! >>>=20 >>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 3:49=E2=80=AFAM Qian Li = > wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I would like to fund in three areas. >>>=20 >>> Quantum computer design. It is the next revolution in the computing = world. >>> Building programmable network routers that are sufficiently quick to = handle network packets at line speeds. In the meantime, router functions = can be updated as easily and economically as software updates. This will = solve the problem of Internet ossification. The deployment of new = Internet technologies such as IPv6 will thus become easy. >>> Home robots design. This may include cleaning, cooking, and = babysitting robots. They can free housewives from day to day housework. = As a result, more women will be able to contribute to the advance of = computer networks >>>=20 >>> Qian >>>=20 >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Nnagain > on behalf of Dave Taht = via Nnagain > >>> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2023 11:15 AM >>> To: rjmcmahon > >>> Cc: Dave Taht >; = Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects heard = this time! > >>> Subject: Re: [NNagain] if you had a billion dollars >>>=20 >>> thx for your thoughts! I have a fear that the other 175 other people >>> here that have not posted yet have all our emails are going directly >>> into their spam bin, so I wanted with this post to encourage people = to >>> lean back, relax (smoke one if you got 'em! Put on some great record >>> on the stereo too), and propose spending an arbitrary billion $ on >>> something they think would be good for the computing and internet >>> world. >>>=20 >>> It is otherwise such an inoptimistic world nowadays. I was delighted >>> to see the whole earth catalog back online: >>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D37872774 = >>>=20 >>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 11:23=E2=80=AFPM rjmcmahon = > wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> o) FiWi chips and FiWi concentrators >>> o) Train people in fields that give them long term careers, e.g. how = to >>> construct & manage fiber & RF networks >>> o) Things to help with climate impacts, e.g. advertise the heck out = of >>> heat pumps >>> o) Fund shelters and support systems for victims of domestic = violence >>> o) Try to find a business model that pays journalists so we don't = have >>> to rely on Jeff Bezos for our news >>>=20 >>> I wouldn't: >>> o) Buy an island in Hawaii >>> o) Buy a house that's more than 2000 sq ft >>> o) Buy a boat >>> o) Have 11 kids with multiple women >>> o) Fund anti aging research >>> o) Try to build rockets to mars, unless the project hired minorities = to >>> do so >>>=20 >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dgoh2x_G0ct4 = >>>=20 >>> Bob >>>=20 >>> in trying to initiate some out of the box thinking here... >>>=20 >>> What would *you* do with a billion dollars? >>>=20 >>> ... >>>=20 >>> I wrote this in 2015. I would not change much: >>>=20 >>> http://the-edge.taht.net/post/billion/ = >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Oct 30: = https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html = >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nnagain mailing list >>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain = >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Oct 30: = https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html = >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nnagain mailing list >>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain = >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Oct 30: = https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html = >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain = > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain --Apple-Mail=_37146BB0-1429-43E2-8941-3FFDC6C08890 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:20 AM, le berger des photons via = Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

Gene,  you seem to have = missed the part where the psychopaths who run the society have made most = scientists believe things which just ain't true.  You talk about = seeing gravity waves, and you probably refuse to imagine that gravity is = an unlimited source of energy which we can exploit and send the = psychopaths packing except that they've fooled most of the people who = think of themselves as scientists so that they can control a miserable = world rather than participate in a dream world.  Do you think I'm = mistaken?

Wow, there are a lot of thoughts packed in = here.
  • I don=E2=80=99t = have a theory for understanding psychopaths
  • I know of = a few influential psychopaths, but I don=E2=80=99t know if any of those = =E2=80=9Cwho run the society=E2=80=9D
  • I don=E2=80=99t = know how to qualitatively believe "most scientists believe things which = just ain=E2=80=99t true=E2=80=9D
    • There = might be =E2=80=9Csome=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Ca few=E2=80=9D. Which = scientist are you thinking about?
  • Yes, we have = built a machine to measure and visualize gravity waves.
  • Why would I refuse to IMAGINE "that gravity is an unlimited = source of energy"?
    • I suspect the = energy density in a gravity wave might not be useful to us. But that is = my speculation
    • Could you sketch out how gravity = energy can be extracted in useful quantities?
  • As = to =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6which we can exploit and send=E2=80=A6 and send the = psychopaths packing=E2=80=A6 rather than participate in a dream = world.=E2=80=9D
    • I have no way to = understand that chain of thoughts. It is just too terse. It is a string = of sound bites that I can=E2=80=99t interpret. What are you trying to = make me think or feel? Is it written by ChatGPT?
  • If you had a billion dollars=E2=80=A6 what would you do with = it?
    • How much money would approximate = =E2=80=9Can unlimited source of energy=E2=80=9D?
    • If = you had an unlimited source of money, what would you do with it?
      • Can you now send psychopaths packing?
      • Is unlimited still not enough because of all the fooled = scientists?

=F0=9F= =A7=90   Gene






On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 6:43=E2=80=AFAM Eugene Y = Chang via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:



On Oct 14, 2023, at 4:35 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

That is lovely. I too would like to find a = place to logout for a long while.

You missed my point. I didn=E2=80=99t = mean to suggest a logout for anyone.

Being connected to reality and life is = hard work.
Many people distrust science and = engineering because they don=E2=80=99t appreciate how every = sophisticated technology and abstract facts are connected to = observations from the human senses back when we studied natural = philosophy. This is the chain of observations spanning thousands of = years and generations. Eventually, that body of knowledge was called = science. Every technical fact we know can be traced back through this = chain of human observations. Along the way, we build tools to extend our = senses. Now, we can =E2=80=9Csee=E2=80=9D and measure electron positions = and gravity waves. It is not magic and belief. It is the chain of hard = work by many people.

Similarly, connecting our individual emotions and values to = society, to the world, and to the universe is hard work. It takes us = beyond our animal instincts. In Zen, this effort is the work to achieve = enlightenment.

Gene





172 thoughts left to come in!

/me makes mental push for everyone to check their spam = folders
(was this list coming in as spam?)
On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 3:54=E2=80=AFPM Eugene Y Chang = <eugene.chang@ieee.org> wrote:

Build an institute to teach an = appreciation of natural philosophy and Zen.
(I need to = think more about generalizing alternative development to spiritual = connections.)
Many people have lost (or lack) a connection = to both approaches to reality.


Gene
----------------------------------------------
Eugene Chang
IEEE Senior Life Member
eugene.chang@ieee.org
m 781-799-0233 (in = Honolulu)




On Oct 14, 2023, at 4:00 AM, Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

Thank you! 173 people left to weigh in!

On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 3:49=E2=80=AFAM Qian Li <li_qian_pro@hotmail.com> wrote:


I would like to fund in three areas.

Quantum computer design. It is the next = revolution in the computing world.
Building programmable = network routers that are sufficiently quick to handle network packets at = line speeds. In the meantime, router functions can be updated as easily = and economically as software updates. This will solve the problem of = Internet ossification. The deployment of new Internet technologies such = as IPv6 will thus become easy.
Home robots design. This = may include cleaning, cooking, and babysitting robots. They can free = housewives from day to day housework. As a result, more women will be = able to contribute to the advance of computer networks

Qian

________________________________
From: Nnagain = <nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net>= on behalf of Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Sent: = Saturday, October 14, 2023 11:15 AM
To: rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com>
Cc: Dave Taht = <dave.taht@gmail.com>; Network Neutrality is back! = Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects heard this time! <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: = Re: [NNagain] if you had a billion dollars

thx for your thoughts! I have a fear that the other 175 other = people
here that have not posted yet have all our emails = are going directly
into their spam bin, so I wanted with = this post to encourage people to
lean back, relax (smoke = one if you got 'em! Put on some great record
on the stereo = too), and propose spending an arbitrary billion $ on
something they think would be good for the computing and = internet
world.

It is = otherwise such an inoptimistic world nowadays. I was delighted
to see the whole earth catalog back online:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D37872774

On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 11:23=E2=80=AFPM = rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> wrote:


o) FiWi chips and FiWi concentrators
o) Train people in fields that give them long term careers, = e.g. how to
construct & manage fiber & RF = networks
o) Things to help with climate impacts, e.g. = advertise the heck out of
heat pumps
o) Fund = shelters and support systems for victims of domestic violence
o) Try to find a business model that pays journalists so we = don't have
to rely on Jeff Bezos for our news

I wouldn't:
o) Buy an island in = Hawaii
o) Buy a house that's more than 2000 sq ft
o) Buy a boat
o) Have 11 kids with multiple = women
o) Fund anti aging research
o) Try to = build rockets to mars, unless the project hired minorities to
do so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dgoh2x_G0ct4

Bob

in trying to = initiate some out of the box thinking here...

What would *you* do with a billion dollars?

...

I wrote this in 2015. I = would not change much:

http://the-edge.taht.net/post/billion/




--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof= .html
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain




--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof= .html
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain




--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof= .html
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos

_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
_______________________________________________
Nnagain = mailing list
Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain

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