From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pl1-x631.google.com (mail-pl1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::631]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FA163B29D; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:12:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pl1-x631.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1d3ef33e68dso32557425ad.1; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:12:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704921131; x=1705525931; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=VPDz+9Hsofpmx4vaXUr1lei5KvfxGgE5juHueRdhO88=; b=FgVRASbpk3wwTxnrZgKVe2RF7UVS4erWjZGvtCtZdYUxdEnYgY/089oIs/ZAv2Rcba Jge6W7YhDBvJtz/Weca6UxmgXY4yWPrHFgosBOq274Xdw52uU4+r2uBNmxopudahR4pi KCkVB6e3+DoihndYj8eiWtHWwO0dRY3FExeSV1KXrnEj7+e8INn/TpwKfTbyzLEkSdij A/8eOCHa6fKGIjmKCzpTnbV/WIfEEbN1survhCkGtyWdP448jhgpby6oDRDS19ovTiMW xPkGvocjjRknCVF2CKRuCGUfsj6ezax/R9yIAhruzEFWz3dLUyb4v4QHF0Cij6CQsbdk KPuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704921131; x=1705525931; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VPDz+9Hsofpmx4vaXUr1lei5KvfxGgE5juHueRdhO88=; b=xSczGS915xdR623Jy/63i20Y+hboTnQoriaTC5PXPjv+RlFZFU9f5fFYNbACkcRViD WONNuySMiu5CCL5lLsiit9Hb8r9dLg3zRt6wBppIGQMnb0Q5DgfkiYJhHYgp7l/HheuL 8rt86MA9bjjWMlDqbukKY+jbu4ikXgJd6OE1HMIa44pA1Nj8r7n6OvkjX4aSnN2JtgMR Y9kUW3qbCWnQXAi9Bc/5hpXQjujxsW5TQH53zNIeX2+gDKuJmNi/DdrytQj+LBL4S1Cy x5wF7D2O+WvKXERCrahrG/1vVAEF8nXuUCJdNa+g6pas+R1NRcozv6ZUaMmNpl9OgJyS wA3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxcH6dIHAwNVzSykdl1MJfZ8v8oXxZg6piFRTGLjJj8iBvvfF/c M5GZQnKe1hfFGF9R4QofNf11QChENns= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE8CbsmfHiO6nVIcTWc/lu8XrCRZFRaQHQBj4vWnvLPYlQSzHmSnI4CqZMYhbFLxRq5hRXyzQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ef8b:b0:1d4:ceab:58b9 with SMTP id iz11-20020a170902ef8b00b001d4ceab58b9mr96490plb.40.1704921130732; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:12:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2601:603:4d80:98a0:2d08:a5d6:3b0e:d1ee]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q2-20020a170902788200b001d4c984e02bsm4106420pll.11.2024.01.10.13.12.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:12:10 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.200.91.1.1\)) From: Spencer Sevilla In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:11:59 -0800 Cc: bloat , Dave Taht Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <644FD1D6-E0B9-40A6-82E4-F3BDF3E1A0F8@gmail.com> References: To: =?utf-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?utf-8?Q?pects_heard_this_time!?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.200.91.1.1) Subject: Re: [NNagain] cloud gaming on a comeback? X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:12:12 -0000 I=E2=80=99ve thought about this exact point for years. Game network = programming often uses some complexity to split low-bandwidth = low-latency traffic (e.g. location updates) from bigger amounts of data = transfer. Similarly, the LTE/5G stack provides amazing primitives to = segregate and prioritize different traffic streams at a low level = throughout the entire network. You=E2=80=99d think they were a natural = fit for each other, but the semantic differences (and IMO the telco = architecture=E2=80=99s need to control *everything* and breakout traffic = by content type) are pretty large and hard to get around. To make the = point clear I=E2=80=99ve sometimes idly considered a joke of a solution = wherein a gaming app opens up a phone call to one of their servers and = uses that channel for low-bandwidth-low-latency traffic encoded using an = audio codec, and sends everything else over as generic data. I am deeply interested in best of both worlds solutions, or specifically = a more content-blind/neutral way for ISPs/Telcos to prioritize certain = low-bandwidth-low-latency traffic streams. I=E2=80=99ve seen that topic = discussed a fair amount on this listserv and have sincerely appreciated = the nuanced points raised :-) Spencer > On Jan 10, 2024, at 08:33, Dave Taht via Nnagain = wrote: >=20 > This does a pretty good job of summarizing the benefits, and issues, > behind making gaming a for-pay at the isp service, among other things. >=20 > = https://www.lightreading.com/cloud/telcos-should-offer-dedicated-gaming-in= ternet-packages-ericsson >=20 > In the case of LTE/5G if they could merely deliver a solid home gaming > experience, it would be a win... and they still can=C2=B4t. >=20 > --=20 > 40 years of net history, a couple songs: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD9RGX6QFm5E > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain