From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bosmailout01.eigbox.net (bosmailout01.eigbox.net [66.96.184.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8651A3CB37 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2023 18:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bosmailscan09.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.9]) by bosmailout01.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1qoWf6-00025y-30 for nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net; Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:17:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alum.mit.edu; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=fzkRJ+K84Aog+cl65MgsTKosfDenRpV24NOZO1C8g0c=; b=ZfmrCo7hQChPuiMD0pyQ3gM9pd 9F0hYIc3PBR0bVjKXrT8lZuuVJKP3JqZL2MszxWjL7ufxdvB//O6Hek70L1htsJ0/xcrHFtStM8+5 guZsiCwZyumUf5RKM9u59pU85mLY7PVV8hXA280y0kVJ0BUhqbzlg+VfwNk62Ubbw5GkSL2m9SyA8 SQZMKuBEuq8Byj9VsxDfBeuCy+GW0yW7r+m8U9UlJfBl0aEFAiM8VS6qHTwRAuFaDgXSYmsIMxDWf TI/sYryuXikOERr3yJruxjtHpCL32XWM5rcgChEHFAIG+Z84pquA/bSEZybr7VGF1CRHG8UQHK7K9 pylv+Bhw==; Received: from [10.115.3.33] (helo=bosimpout13) by bosmailscan09.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1qoWf5-00018b-Rp for nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net; Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:17:39 -0400 Received: from bosauthsmtp07.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.7]) by bosimpout13 with id uNHc2A004099BUA01NHfUD; Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:17:39 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=G76H7+s5 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=x8qw8EAkfcRkIpZA8Q87Bg==:117 a=tKttg/DTfI8zZz0UFxdR5w==:17 a=bhdUkHdE2iEA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=kurRqvosAAAA:8 a=kyQdI15JAAAA:8 a=IV-ZD71AJDSNOSh3gSgA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=rLZmCjfzZCIrf1yso2IA:9 a=dU3uva0G7CM7AtC2:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=kbxRQ_lfPIoQnHsAj2-A:22 a=xUWSGK36Sp_PlVLcBhaP:22 Received: from c-73-158-253-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([73.158.253.41]:54649 helo=SRA6) by bosauthsmtp07.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1qoWf2-0007DX-9v; Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:17:36 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Dick Roy" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?pects_heard_this_time!'?= Cc: "'Livingood, Jason'" References: <6D7F7242-248B-4FD4-BEDA-EE931B7DFE3C@andyring.com> <0a158308-e0c1-4722-8013-745e3ded232d@app.fastmail.com> <1B7534EB-2FCE-4500-B53D-F1DFEED1DBC7@gmx.de> <7o88o9p0-049q-s54r-604p-1n995rq89p60@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 15:17:34 -0700 Organization: SRA Message-ID: <6ED94BF433874449A02EA959E7B95B54@SRA6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0521_01D9F79F.12E30970" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AQHZ9V4sRg+f2MtJgEyaZSNjOR0+erA220RAgADWgACAAMUqcIAAIumAgAEx7hCAAB6XAIABe9WAgABg23A= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE X-EN-UserInfo: f809475445fb8041985048e338e1a001:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: dickroy@intellicommunications.com Sender: "Dick Roy" X-EN-OrigIP: 73.158.253.41 X-EN-OrigHost: c-73-158-253-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net Subject: Re: [NNagain] On "Throttling" behaviors X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 22:17:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0521_01D9F79F.12E30970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone done an analysis of the capacity of FWA systems (in bits/sec/Hz/km^3)???? I am suspicious that the capacity falls way short = of that which cable guys have at their disposal, and that as the FWA = networks get loaded, performance is going to degrade dramatically ultimately resulting in churn back to the cable guys. It's very expensive to = compete with already sunk FTTH or even FTTC. =20 =20 RR =20 -----Original Message----- From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf = Of Livingood, Jason via Nnagain Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 1:25 PM To: Network Neutrality is back! Let=B4s make the technical aspects heard = this time! Cc: Livingood, Jason Subject: Re: [NNagain] On "Throttling" behaviors =20 > On 10/4/23, 13:45, "Nnagain on behalf of David Lang via Nnagain" on behalf of nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > = wrote: =20 > It's an unfortunate fact of reality that the enviornment in the US is = one where=20 there is very little competition in the ISP space=20 =20 The SEC 10-K filings of ISPs no longer support that. Most wireline ISPs = are losing subscribers (at material levels) to one of the three new national = 5G FWA ISPs (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T). In addition, we will in a few years = see the effects of $45B+ of grant money dedicated to underwrite new = broadband access network construction - that is also pretty material.=20 =20 Per = https://telecoms.com/523519/growth-in-5g-fwa-kit-matches-operator-hype/ - " 5G FWA customer premises equipment shipments more than doubled to = 7.4 million last year and should reach 13.8 million =96 that=92s 86% growth = =96 this year " - " The GSA survey shows overall FWA CPE shipments of 25.5 million units last year, " - " Statistics shared by Leichtman Research Group recently showed that T-Mobile and Verizon together recorded the best part of 900,000 5G FWA = net adds in the second quarter of this year, significantly more than the virtually flat cable segment and ahead of the wireline broadband market, which lost almost 62,000 customers in the three months. " =20 JL =20 _______________________________________________ Nnagain mailing list Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain ------=_NextPart_000_0521_01D9F79F.12E30970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has anyone done an analysis of the capacity of FWA systems (in bits/sec/Hz/km^3)???? =A0I am suspicious that the capacity falls way = short of that which cable guys have at their disposal, and that as the FWA = networks get loaded, performance is going to degrade dramatically ultimately = resulting in churn back to the cable guys.=A0 It's very expensive to compete with = already sunk FTTH or even FTTC. =A0

 

RR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf = Of Livingood, Jason via Nnagain
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 1:25 PM
To: Network Neutrality is back! Let=B4s make the technical aspects heard = this time!
Cc: Livingood, Jason
Subject: Re: [NNagain] On "Throttling" = behaviors

 

> On 10/4/23, 13:45, "Nnagain on behalf of David Lang = via Nnagain" <nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net = <mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote:

 

> It's an unfortunate fact of reality that the enviornment in = the US = is one where

there is very little competition in the ISP space =

 

The SEC 10-K filings of ISPs no longer support that. Most = wireline ISPs are losing subscribers (at material levels) to one of the three new = national 5G FWA ISPs (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T). In addition, we will in a few = years see the effects of $45B+ of grant money dedicated to underwrite new = broadband access network construction - that is also pretty material. =

 

Per = https://telecoms.com/523519/growth-in-5g-fwa-kit-matches-operator-hype/

- " 5G FWA customer premises equipment shipments more than = doubled to 7.4 million last year and should reach 13.8 million – = that’s 86% growth – this year "

- " The GSA survey shows overall FWA CPE shipments of 25.5 = million units last year, "

- " Statistics shared by Leichtman Research Group recently = showed that T-Mobile and Verizon together recorded the best part of 900,000 5G = FWA net adds in the second quarter of this year, significantly more than the = virtually flat cable segment and ahead of the wireline broadband market, which = lost almost 62,000 customers in the three months. = "

 

JL

 

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