From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F7833CB37 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 17:54:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) by bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 094EE1B313; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 14:54:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 bobcat.rjmcmahon.com 094EE1B313 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rjmcmahon.com; s=bobcat; t=1700434449; bh=zG/ZtMKqnSEraivzgL8aGo989wYxeh2vWdZNaWa94xQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=JGwkuYnpCg/A062H9Fe5VlEAy7HcYavs+e7tqEjaEpStzRK2TOrfIhcFDbYDahoBB Q9aK91u9R+7yz/qTkBHPrGGOm3eU4VWO8d2zR0VLLZCRl2No8ZOP3nOgVQ08JIWbI3 ZzozLzCAg5+sOyJfh9SCJ0yyRqdLa9hTN82NMMhg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 14:54:08 -0800 From: rjmcmahon To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_a?= =?UTF-8?Q?spects_heard_this_time!?= Cc: Dave Taht , debbie.chachra@olin.edu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6dc14d839e50972f55b9a8b7285739d4@rjmcmahon.com> X-Sender: rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [NNagain] water infrastructure and much more X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 22:54:10 -0000 The initial phase of potable water in Boston wasn't because of germ theory but rather about the temperance movement. Also, water infrastructure was used to support fire departments in cities in the US. Our cities tended to experience a lot of conflagrations. Rich people had access to piped water infrastructure way ahead of poor people in Boston for sure. It was a doctor who led Boston to provide universal access to clean, potable water in the name of public health. There are a lot of books written by trained historians on this - no need to for us to guess. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement#:~:text=People%20were%20instructed%20to%20only,had%20gained%201.5%20million%20members. Teetotalism (1830s) See also: Blue ribbon badge As a response to rising social problems in urbanized areas, a stricter form of temperance emerged called teetotalism, which promoted the complete abstinence from alcoholic beverages, this time including wine and beer, not just ardent spirits. The term teetotaler came from the capital "T"s that were written next to the names of people who pledged complete abstinence from alcohol. People were instructed to only drink pure water and the teetotalists were known as the "pure-water army". In the US, the American Temperance Union advocated total abstinence from distilled and fermented liquors. By 1835, they had gained 1.5 million members. Bob > I have not had much time to write anything long form, but I enjoy > reading long, thoughtful pieces on Sundays, and this one might > ultimately yield analogies for internet infrastructure also. > > https://comment.org/care-at-scale/ > > "In the late nineteenth century, the wealthy taxpayers of Boston were > convinced to build out water and sewage systems by a straightforward > logic: every person in the city, rich or poor, needed clean water to > drink every day. Without it, they would be at risk of contracting > water-borne diseases like cholera. And with so many people in > proximity, wealth alone couldn’t provide protection from contagious > disease." > > While otherwise a wonderful read - go read it!! - > > Me being me, I disagree that "the wealthy taxpayers of boston > recognized the need for common water infrastructure" because the germ > theory of disease was not well accepted, and the organism behind the > epidemic was first described in 1854 and not again until 1884. I > imagine there was great - AGW-esq - sturm und drang - and attempts to > shift the blame for cholera to merely "being poor", or "foreign", or > "the will of the gods", or rats - and attempts to shift the costs > onto various other parties before safer water distribution systems > were built, but! I freely admit, I have not done the research into the > controversies that IMHO, must have existed back then. I think that > practical problems, like enough city water in the first place to > support the population density therein, also were a factor. > > The need for sound water and septic systems was recognized by many > cities two millenia prior to this... and not by many others. I > remember when the Delaware river and Boston Harbor were sewers, and > have lived many places around the world where that was still the case > for many rivers. > > From some history (that I already knew) see this: > > https://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/firstdiscoveredcholera.html > > (It is remarkable how many expired SSL certificates there are in the > world, also.) > > The Boston river caught fire many times before 1969, and until then, > no-body cared: > > https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cuyahoga-river-caught-fire-least-dozen-times-no-one-cared-until-1969-180972444/