From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from secmail.pch.net (secmail.pch.net [206.220.231.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9E253B29D for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2024 16:50:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from secmail.pch.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by secmail.pch.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Tkrkf6tFBz4xJMq for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2024 13:50:18 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: secmail.pch.net (amavisd-new); dkim=pass reason="pass (just generated, assumed good)" header.d=pch.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=pch.net; h= x-mailer:to:references:message-id:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:content-type; s=secmail_dkim; t=1709070617; x= 1711662618; bh=AOwN44qEK+xACsbpWfDJQTwLkdxiD5JzC7EaPz0Ctvc=; b=7 O0Kb8ZLoH9NJ613Yny7QtkV3ay/k0uEhs7CPruXBIWE9CCJuqiG/O5HERO3t+rBD n9aYlwVPXrPFSkUNN+tgwdICIuXZDDrUDjpUKPV278P6DWaj5JVmuS3ZcbSDRgLA lCBunkMKWLQCpchfgWBiDev7MvvSumzCnnSw8l6p+LHbNgi2SPz2SpWHYBbjdcZR T9bVds4ghNIMumVl3MRUGHIaMoCeQsOXPR8JnDxGYPWNlbXyanhGnKkCWyTBfCnY insRbmAKKaKuPJrez4hGJyAdW+3Cch6OB9ub/zTFM+G7Y+O5A79D4VHau9+wonQx uA4iKFeXDNfikPVZnf15g== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at secmail.pch.net Received: from secmail.pch.net ([127.0.0.1]) by secmail.pch.net (secmail.pch.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id JcNcD4XV6HI0 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2024 13:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [66.185.123.190]) by secmail.pch.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Tkrkc7151z4xVTZ; Tue, 27 Feb 2024 13:50:16 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6F2C5EC3-78E8-4380-BE92-EA51ED86FE91"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.500.171.1.1\)) From: Bill Woodcock In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 22:50:14 +0100 Cc: the keyboard of geoff goodfellow , Dave Taht , Starlink , =?utf-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?utf-8?Q?pects_heard_this_time!?= Message-Id: <78BD5C61-8CFB-4F23-AFE4-8189AFE35EE6@pch.net> References: To: NANOG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.500.171.1.1) Subject: Re: [NNagain] starlink ixp peering progress X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 21:50:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6F2C5EC3-78E8-4380-BE92-EA51ED86FE91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Feb 27, 2024, at 08:54, Dave Taht wrote: > One of the things I learned today was that starlink has published an = extensive guide as to how existing BGP AS holders can peer with them to = get better service. Yes, essentially every AS does this. The ones that follow = best-practices tend to be pretty uniform: https://pch.net/peering https://aws.amazon.com/peering/policy/ https://www.bytedance.com/en/peering https://peering.google.com/#/options/peering https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/peering/ https://www.lumen.com/en-us/about/legal/peering-policy.html http://peering.ovh.net/ Starlink=E2=80=99s peering policy is straight-forward and follows best = practices. Then there are ones that get a little further afield, some = of which can get kinda unusual in their fine-print: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/internet-peering/policy https://www.verizon.com/business/terms/peering/ = https://www.zayo.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Zayo-Global-IP-Interconnec= tion-Policy-Final-1.pdf https://wholesale.orange.com/international/en/peering-policy.html > I am curious if there is a way to see how many have peered already? Well, if Starlink operates a looking-glass, sure. Or you can derive an = idea, albeit an incomplete one, from public data. If any national = communications regulators are paying attention, they may have placed a = regulatory requirement on Starlink to make this public data, though it = might have to be dug out of regulatory compliance filings, and might not = be up-to-date. > how many they could actually peer with? That you=E2=80=99d need to script, though many people have. We have an = internal tool that tells us that about our own network, and I suspect = pretty much every network large enough to have a dedicated peering team = does likewise. If you were to write such a tool for nonspecific use, we = have public datasets that would show you who potential peers were at = each IXP, and what routes / how many addresses they were advertising at = each IXP=E2=80=A6 Obviously if you=E2=80=99re learning Deutche = Telekom=E2=80=99s routes in Frankfurt and Munich, it matters somewhat = less whether you also peer with them in Karlsruhe, assuming they=E2=80=99r= e advertising the same routes everywhere, though it=E2=80=99s still = good. If they=E2=80=99re doing regional announcement, you might need to = peer with them in different location to =E2=80=9Ccollect the whole = set=E2=80=9D of their routes. That=E2=80=99s not so common now, though = it was a fad for a while, maybe fifteen years ago. I haven=E2=80=99t = tried to quantify the degree of regional announcement lately=E2=80=A6 = that=E2=80=99s a good small project for a student who wants to learn = about routing and interconnection. > And progress over time since inception.... is there a tool for that? I think you=E2=80=99d have to throw together your own tools for that, or = derive it from public data such as the routing archives that we, RIPE, = and Route-Views maintain. > Is there a better email list to discuss ixp stuff? The two I know of are ixp-discuss@pch.net and ixp-discuss@itu.int. Both = are pretty quiet, though both have very helpful people on them. -Bill --Apple-Mail=_6F2C5EC3-78E8-4380-BE92-EA51ED86FE91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEm6XJ0FdpKWJHso4lb6RwSyiLf4cFAmXeWRYACgkQb6RwSyiL f4d2TxAAtCVxCGsGMVH91a6S8wEsztPLms3gtAr4wiQ2IreOMNcpPiaXB+Y7/tuF t0RX0cEpr0Cq9acCYp2GY0XYeSa/QQPqhmjomZe5iZubVW741nsgzhA0eNRRP/yF rtODLn7InStc+E3bTs/THBjgCP2BQWhi+Jb2NQ9cUVLYjG0d2b+ya+83HuLFqzHh NUop6jP1+JYdIlzxwoZN6pkej88HMSWMntHfRkKJdVPHkLZ5aP7QvnLu1dJNrTM3 f7bsUxdN7SEzJ5hlUX7DjbrvXwJ/g5+GJlr3uVcpkH2q81egPtl6+dAU4KB1gYMF F2C1KlkFid+mCyK4jL4UQ2eZn6s2PXGX33I1WvAm5e5lT2+33J5RZDXbMSc2IeWs 81uYMIMgw6LhuyJv/wC4EQYVZ7empJy9XreUD3zhNc+iGbrzUcx+W2tgbYmv23fV qd7x28o9LGuAu2SrahljIKDz99E37SVuOvaytGFqF6HUj2bu2GXAgTp8UdfjRbkt xUAPWayE7wHxNdFWfW4y0Js/rBbj7pcxvt/HL20EUH77//di5Y924v+GZBes947Z k4WhBmjOoy5G47jpIYP328rIBQ38xJFsa119RBBigcxMjmx5CSGb2/df2qY6xfUO y58k1H63/G9AuLDckXihxeKjgvhbmYJIY+zLJxdaM8cD/+BiK4Q= =tLMx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6F2C5EC3-78E8-4380-BE92-EA51ED86FE91--