From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22B043CB37 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2023 13:22:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [100.103.122.195] (116.sub-174-249-145.myvzw.com [174.249.145.116]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC00B1B25E; Sun, 10 Dec 2023 10:22:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 bobcat.rjmcmahon.com EC00B1B25E DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rjmcmahon.com; s=bobcat; t=1702232528; bh=cp0smRqraNjjFXqd/aNyRFr4HGASb+bN2g2ZyxSJIpw=; h=In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Date:To:CC:From; b=TJYEb3db0hiiFKJznFPUvCeaeAO50C/Rv3rMg2ACrdXFLumfafvho34mYyWRBMQFE 1WfZGE9M7rHbKoCXsaO0Zve+FQu+zYhBLFohX3UnZAJcapoTKSy/PQj0HQkCrLQ7pJ Wwqf03d4C2tNYK7M6CLHEqw1BmL7vaNQ8dtylfAM= In-Reply-To: References: X-Referenced-Uid: 00011d0b567702d5 Thread-Topic: Re: [NNagain] The Verge: The quiet plan to make the internet feel faster X-Blue-Identity: !l=165&o=43&fo=3077&pl=98&po=0&qs=PREFIX&f=HTML&m=!%3AODY4NDIxODAtZDYzYS00ZmFiLTk1N2EtZjE0NWVlYzg4ZGQ1%3ASU5CT1g%3D%3AMDAwMTFkMGI1Njc3MDJkNQ%3D%3D%3AANSWERED&p=69&q=SHOW X-Is-Generated-Message-Id: true User-Agent: Android MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----6ER5Z9MZLEYSDSK2VLXRHBTIM3ICHP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Robert McMahon Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 10:21:57 -0800 To: Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain Message-ID: <826a0d77-b6b8-423d-a094-93d75840fa90@rjmcmahon.com> Subject: Re: [NNagain] The Verge: The quiet plan to make the internet feel faster X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:22:09 -0000 ------6ER5Z9MZLEYSDSK2VLXRHBTIM3ICHP Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sorry, this isn't a very good technical analysis=2E It's a push agenda for = AQM=2E I get that many people's egos are tied to their belief that my algor= ithm came down from God himself=2E It's not true though=2E =E2=81=A3Bob = On Dec 10, 2023, 3:12 AM, at 3:12 AM, Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain wrote: >I find it alarming for the future of in= ternet that there is a trend to >use elbowing techniques to squeeze metrics= out at the expense of all >other flows=2E We know that when nobody plays f= air the arms race ends >badly=2E > >Best regards, >Sauli > >On 12/10/23, Fr= antisek Borsik via Nnagain > wrote: >> W= ell, to be completely honest, I would say its about general public, >really= >> - it=E2=80=99s an article in The Verge :-) >> >> But yeah=2E Here=E2=80= =99s something they should address: >> >> https://github=2Ecom/heistp/l4s-t= ests#key-findings >> >> In general - a potential harm to innocent bystander= s is a biggest L4S >> problem: >> >https://www=2Elinkedin=2Ecom/posts/frant= isekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX >> = >> >> >> >> All the best, >> >> Frank >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >> >> htt= ps://www=2Elinkedin=2Ecom/in/frantisekborsik >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp:= +421919416714 >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >> Skype: casioa5302ca >>= frantisek=2Eborsik@gmail=2Ecom >> >> >> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 5:48 AM, Ma= tt Mathis via Nnagain < >> nnagain@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet> wrote: >> >>>= About L4S >>> >>> >https://www=2Etheverge=2Ecom/23655762/l4s-internet-appl= e-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth >>> >>> It says something about their tar= get audience that they feel they >need to >>> explain bytes vs bits=2E >>> = >>> Thanks, >>> --MM-- >>> Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "= The Truth" and use >force >>> to apply it to others=2E >>> ----------------= --------------------------- >>> Matt Mathis (Email is best) >>> Home & mob= ile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must call=2E >>> >>> ______= _________________________________________ >>> Nnagain mailing list >>> Nnag= ain@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >>> https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinf= o/nnagain >>> >> >_______________________________________________ >Nnagain = mailing list >Nnagain@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >https://lists=2Ebufferbloa= t=2Enet/listinfo/nnagain ------6ER5Z9MZLEYSDSK2VLXRHBTIM3ICHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, this = isn't a very good technical analysis=2E It's a push agenda for AQM=2E I get= that many people's egos are tied to their belief that my algorithm came do= wn from God himself=2E It's not true though=2E


Bob
On Dec 10, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain = <= nnagain@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet> wrote:
I find it alarming fo=
r the future of internet that there is a trend to
use elbowing technique=
s to squeeze metrics out at the expense of all
other flows=2E We know th=
at when nobody plays fair the arms race ends
badly=2E

Best regard=
s,
Sauli

On 12/10/23, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnagain@li=
sts=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet> wrote:
 Well, to be completely honest, I would say its about general p=
ublic, really
 - it=E2=80=99s an article in The Verge :-)

 But ye=
ah=2E Here=E2=80=99s something they should address:

 https://github=2Ecom/heistp=
/l4s-tests#key-findings

 In general - a potential harm to innoce=
nt bystanders is a biggest L4S
 problem:
 https://www=2Elinkedin=2Ecom/posts/frantisekborsik_jo=
nathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX


<=
br>
 All the best,

 Frank
 Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

 https://www=2Elin=
kedin=2Ecom/in/frantisekborsik
 Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +4219194=
16714
 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
 Skype: casioa5302ca
 frant=
isek=2Eborsik@gmail=2Ecom


 On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 5:48 AM, Matt =
Mathis via Nnagain <
 nnagain@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet> wrote:
 About L4S

 https://www=2Etheverge=2Ecom/23655762/l4s-internet-=
apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth

 It says something about t=
heir target audience that they feel they need to
 explain bytes vs bits=
=2E

 Thanks,
 --MM--
 Evil is defined by mortals who think the=
y know "The Truth" and use force
 to apply it to others=2E

 M=
att Mathis  (Email is best)
 Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leav=
e a message if you must call=2E


 Nnagain mailing list
 Nn=
again@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet
 https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/nnagain=




Nnagain mailing list
Nnaga=
in@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet
https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/nnagain<=
br>
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