From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail71.out.titan.email (mail71.out.titan.email [209.209.25.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D933E3B2A4 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 15:00:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out.flockmail.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-out.flockmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 494E3140210 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 20:00:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-76-137-180-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.137.180.175]) by smtp-out.flockmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C56CC14023D for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 20:00:18 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=3kitty.org; s=titan1; t=1704830419; bh=iZyuW3Gihm9FtBZTsPQ6VCJks2dF8083PORIkUGm4Yg=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:References:From: In-Reply-To:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID; b=ZSCdPe5LUfZ3tyMJJPXBvEA/WGiV9FQ4B6NgGXuBZ9jIG5RCBK9wk11XpLjGck/Q2 Nx05DfjEs8bS6HpfOfChqTkdUbKK6XjAk0euG+ir+ZVWfb5eQM7kVmWxSvF/jv+sQ1 foDGAFX+NWIHLG3PA8k+3bGi7nMlA+07qSIsYtfE= Message-ID: <8c29e360-7cbc-4b67-a669-640fdc6e6fa6@3kitty.org> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 12:00:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net References: Content-Language: en-US Feedback-ID: :jack@3kitty.org:3kitty.org:flockmailId From: Jack Haverty Autocrypt: addr=jack@3kitty.org; keydata= xsDNBGCm2psBDADGOWO8n9wfkDW9ZUEo8o+SZ5MU9us2il+fS4EFM/RaZFIbQ+P72bExzSd3 WnJdPfqO1O7Q+dRnvVO9+G2/9oT/uRZVaE05+SothzKZBv32HcZoUkdNZOTqSkdo3EwNPjid LLxX+dMBxMpR3pBdvGN8Z7lnZe6fV4QO2xtd58y3B33AVZJp+RuNwucby9dY2meyy2BJVKrx mKhYXAucVyg0ALVIchHt9UknVW4aLvQF+oMfzXVvCWeguW+DvbyazVceWGO7FSgUJ8ED3Ii7 xAR5zZJ1LASoMhG1ixg07P9Uy4ohV6c+c0yV9SY4yqhZ3+zN2cm9h/aXpwjSuiVVAJbK7zzb FjI+h89dbnaVQrLx6GikV0OVYqC6TCeMfCFZQAJLs1icxQi3BLL7O1fbTGatEfTgLa5nqfKq K/D/HlOCUeFxqZI8hXvT5dG4e1m3ilpF2/ytcWKSVg3d699UFntPv3sEbAQwwfXsnuD4Hem6 0Ao0/z41n8x1aeZE80FdkpEAEQEAAc0eSmFjayBIYXZlcnR5IDxqYWNrQDNraXR0eS5vcmc+ wsEJBBMBCAAzFiEEZLvMn5vmvTAlFEILdGzDIkA7jlAFAmCm2pwCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsC BRYCAwEAAAoJEHRswyJAO45QuX0L/jOluv8fr/BmuEEQsWWGW6oARIbjDQrI93kXIJXuPnfp tGjkx/f1TMIzI2B9s/tejiYE7IZOhWbX1YvKF0UbkSJi50UyV9XtYRnLdD5TcksKB4luDF8S R+nj5WBm17Bp8qwriCMgA1jGL2wQ7J1KUw4Q/gsMcjhn/39PevswkriU2qqVplfCs9yTTMU5 SvtE2U9F3Y1ZINHn3kUysvxhRFd+Oh3PocWHmVE+hkII+qsra6z4eztDgoB+vqxmOJEdtvex GhT8OKu74DacguZVfu/AV+cwpX701sdjJrMyKjcv8uhFLM/E5gf6kSUAFxBVwe6pNDmAgmbS c0fAFrZjgXxNxxndpu/8OAUDVzKg+l5WJ0nWss9Q14BwA+FcoclO3lwzFu7jOiLvkm7jQkFB o+p8Owe4iAED1KK/aocIa/RiD4sZ3KXUJ92kkemZ1Qe2XpFVdzxaQDG0huNkc5Mie9rdt62O Ae+5cYdPeWmBVn+pFNs5H09kQQbVR5pUxe2Aps7AzQRgptqcAQwAzzougHNMFr/O/L8HnNJW 1YyOuX0PEVNUXQPwkxKuD8bAXsPr4Hv1a+840ByesiJSadhQgVSMruRqoQC5tTkbEWkqlfDW waNAdqCJOXl2T6gtK7RpcHNx7+/du/gCAhHOXqH1Qfs0Zi3YEbR/kQFRP3wD4GiCvHSny8zJ X9plIHqQGoE5DePNAtE2KimbFMsjguqJgq5x0tMf3qEaMNd0IGTStGpcC49iss71slotH091 Y1Yo9CpzL6rj8IP0BfssEujAvf3Gbf1oi92JRE3s2humFDfPvSlHmRIfWPQ4qFOw1zmlzsV1 eg83gErKbjaDdkbwQA85RTmMVKNVvonM80WB6jAg8tlJ5VlYlpbzASpJRNj+FL1LLBQxCbPU eFwrzqYgNvtdKR7j5nTgdndCxq+2aws/aAjdL10S8yeH7ZOpNPzjDJfMSt/L1O25zPUhXdQC 9AZNYsfyV7rf+POEgVpIEth1fT9WbmS0rZxRd/+y628n31GicbA+teN890vdABEBAAHCwPYE GAEIACAWIQRku8yfm+a9MCUUQgt0bMMiQDuOUAUCYKbanQIbDAAKCRB0bMMiQDuOUF1LC/4q 4pLtmDt6TIET2H7zGj5ie3ng7kC7YqtFPYwgLQzs9WeqQ/5WowEmHOPonBcqhGbtDj22GebQ 7w0RoUHb+aXsbC85I/C+nWgT1ZcfMBTHGlBcIQvOCNG18g87Ha9jgD0HnW4bRUkZmGMpP0Yd TLM+PBNu41AK6z82VPQrfTuPKqwAAS2FK/RpF2xB7rjpETzIPl9Dj9EAkRbviURIg0BQkmej l02FLzGmlTfBIDHBdEgzvD71Z5H9BP8DAbxBzonSTzx/KZyv7njSUzdVLW+5O/WzPgb4Qt4I jQd66LS9HWS1G7AcLjiSQAIf8v7JkX3NwtN+NGX5cmt2p0e9FOOKWXVgCIgPN3/712EEGAgq UUxuPEBD5DrRCgjZL40eHxQza2BAhoVoWopUCGZdCCZJP3iF7818wIph0U393DELG9NAGLJa qkoA8KBimXp9Rd2QvpA864JRy/REoEOEF9lm3clriLyEqaL/VMIQRhl/VSkUuez4Wr68eHus TFdwePg= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------0WR0VueAbdGkL36JO8gbqtj0" X-F-Verdict: SPFVALID X-Titan-Src-Out: 1704830419088545760.2823.4381748226625211264@prod-use1-smtp-out1003. X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=Pe75hDhd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=659da5d3 a=cdvcmBiFVbz+0Uto4GLkPg==:117 a=cdvcmBiFVbz+0Uto4GLkPg==:17 a=CEWIc4RMnpUA:10 a=13zjGPudsaEWiJwPRgMA:9 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=LIdsezxnSjbt8wzoW6EA:9 a=7Zwj6sZBwVKJAoWSPKxL6X1jA+E=:19 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=b7Xx_XHg3wLry9n096QA:9 a=Igq-Uf3toTVLh8Qi:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=mVcgwxjBTkr3zjpDlhIA:9 a=FfaGCDsud1wA:10 a=nGmCLJ6Q8ZMKvNjvgYYA:9 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Subject: Re: [NNagain] The growing challenges of discerning authentic vs. inauthentic information and identity X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2024 20:00:19 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------0WR0VueAbdGkL36JO8gbqtj0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------SL1xfKnP9Y0WCi3pnQbwoE7a"; protected-headers="v1" From: Jack Haverty To: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net Message-ID: <8c29e360-7cbc-4b67-a669-640fdc6e6fa6@3kitty.org> Subject: Re: [NNagain] The growing challenges of discerning authentic vs. inauthentic information and identity References: In-Reply-To: --------------SL1xfKnP9Y0WCi3pnQbwoE7a Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------kREgbx3dIvHLHoZjtfjQ02QO" --------------kREgbx3dIvHLHoZjtfjQ02QO Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------XMSTqWzkjchXSIqAZh81OhYe" --------------XMSTqWzkjchXSIqAZh81OhYe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SU1ITywgc2ltaWxhciBpc3N1ZXMgb2YganVkZ2VtZW50IGFuZCB0cnVzdCBoYXZlIGNvbWUg dXAgaW4gdGhlIHBhc3QsIA0KYW5kIGl0IG1pZ2h0IGJlIHdvcnRoIHJlc2VhcmNoaW5nIHRo ZSBoaXN0b3J5Lg0KDQpJbiB0aGUgY29udGV4dCBvZiB0aGUgV2ViLCBkdXJpbmcgdGhlIDkw 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In the context of the Web, during the 90s there was a similar concern about categorizing content available on the Internet.=C2=A0=C2= =A0 The issue at the time was providing mechanisms to protect children from pornography.=C2=A0 But today's issues of truth and misinformation are= very similar -- e.g., you might categorize an inaccurate news post as "pornographic".

I suggest looking at some work from the 90s.=C2=A0 At the time, I was= working at Oracle as "Internet Architect", and served as corporate representative to W3C (see https://www.w3.org/ ).=C2=A0 Thw W3C group, led by Tim Berners-Lee, was intensely involved in setting technical standards for the Web.

A project was formed call PICS - Platform for Internet Content Selection.=C2=A0 Essentially it created mechanisms to add metadata to= existing content on the Web, and use it to filter content for end users. =C2=A0

See https://www.w3.org/PICS/ for the history.=C2=A0 PICS is now obsol= ete and was replaced by something called POWDER - see https://www.w3.org/2007/powder/

I wasn't involved in POWDER, which occurred after my involvement with W3C ended.=C2=A0 But I was very involved in the creation of PICS= =2E

The main idea of PICS was to enable the creation of "rating schemes" to categorize content.=C2=A0 Since the focus was on pornography, one likely rating scheme was the classical G/R/X ratings popular at the time for characterizing movies.=C2=A0=C2=A0 But anyone, or any group,= could define a rating scheme to suit their views.

Having selected a rating scheme they liked, any group, or individual, could assign ratings to specific content.=C2=A0 Perhaps y= ou think that movie is "R", but I think it's "X".=C2=A0=C2=A0 As a judge= once noted - "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it".=C2=A0=C2=A0= Opinions can of course differ.

Ratings were to be kept in one or more databases, accessible on the Internet to anyone.=C2=A0 Content could be identified by a URL, or perhaps a unique cryptographic "hash" of the content itself, in case it was moved.=C2=A0 Each record would contain 4 items - the identity = of the content, the identity of the rating scheme used, the identity of the person or group making the rating, and the rating which they assigned.=C2=A0 Such technology was easily within the capabilities of= databases even then.

On the "consumer" side, applications (e.g., browsers) would have settings that could be applied to indicate which rating system was to be used, which groups or persons making ratings were to be trusted, and what ratings of content would be actually viewable by the human end user.

The idea was that various groups (content creators, reviewers, religious groups, community activists, etc.) would define their preferred rating scheme and then assign ratings, at least to content they deemed objectionable.

End users, e.g., parents, could then set up their children's web browsers to use the rating scheme of whichever group(s) they trusted to make "correct" ratings, and set their children's browsers appropriately to restrict the content they could see.=C2=A0=C2=A0 A c= ontent consumer simply selects the rating service they trust.

It seems straightforward how a similar mechanism might be applied to instead rate accuracy of Internet content, and allow consumers to choose which, if any, ratings are applied to filter the information they see, based on who they trust to make such judgements.

PICS was actually implemented in popular browser software.=C2=A0=C2=A0= But, as far as I know, no group ever designed their preferred rating scheme, or actually assigned ratings to any content then available on the Internet.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The mechanisms were there.=C2=A0=C2=A0 But appa= rently no one used them.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The loud voices of "Something has to be done!" didn= 't actually themselves do anything.

Even if PICS/POWDER isn't appropriate for handling misinformation, an analysis of why it failed to be used might be revealing.

Jack Haverty


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