From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9ED3E3B29D for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 13:11:02 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1699985459; x=1700590259; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=wxwewYQqZswQPVuT354sSkmv75S5unU2y6MJtC7I4F4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References: To; b=fQfvlVr4B+NZy4O1G+Vy9kxEXys6BFlQEOUYFDRSgOmGXqbNukYh5vI+iwkuSVX5 yKAbzYyDcDw8dC03UkH9Jtb8G8N1PjJmX0Xpp9AuILkaRr9lox8FiRcDQ3brmX5xb 3AtwhAnw1mT6GNVKUqZVJvXdRzQHa6OP2fD9PEiulUZSXpH0h+SetXeHQylwiScgq V12bhFFaumay+sNFuHkW50PkxywPqPITw/6/2EKpKfCaSbJNlXggbegSBr8YOJN1c ovN75oXrMpq6TWrUXDpkXAhJyzIEwRvQWEU2lPB+JCKl7KKmvAoIMg/W0yX5Rh2yl fqnW5LA/I3Q+eQMmTQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([208.115.85.102]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MD9T7-1rBSJn3C4H-0097s6; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 19:10:58 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.4\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 13:10:56 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <96DDD887-4AC2-4F11-9B49-5ED6FC3F5FA2@gmx.de> References: To: =?utf-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?utf-8?Q?pects_heard_this_time!?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.4) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:VQ4SIpoxipR1dRL8jKr553Phb/qnS5C+Q5PxT6vEvQGAawjFyaS 1GauUrZI5KRAoxPypZJK/Pf4PPyPbsGMpOZtnuLs6oM0m5jLS5g5+I56jd3xnP557m1H7sd +3hE0I3TukZkYvwgCJWYYJ1VpDbYyQrmncZMm6aZUjRMMWgKzAX4Jz0DUFKPuh596VB4BcV XMSaXWDerwoqdmvAdTZ1A== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:E0W/54OJmAo=;Eg14OFSwk6DrITpLzdzyhSF/Gnb T7D0/59S2EKo0yvBMLqg7GqtnlUY/0stPCwlTdCXnKAOXJq4+3V+AYxkeq7s2oan3TOd789ID J9Zj7me1ivFNBpfCvaVqs1kIrwvVVCojdiuUurIOKBaWNyfj4VwSmOyJAekEW82sSh0waKjnQ h7FnhzIkGDRPovIKgWez+Yy9fQPOAZ3uQZ68uXL1tdR3mjsRaswTCtFgjLKDvZJH3eIiJdzaS F+Eo8yg6/dn5lT07i/bDLYUaCF+tCzjBlmW/qxTyOXdIYP1U+TZ05rrHz4uw169phagq3wVDy SsmvUFmVoY+MPTJf5wKGgtRolaxVFT4Y4j27K2kW+UOsPlJFkw0aFDKp2QaaOWDM7fsWUXgyF Asm+sMGFjkxkmznyITgeE6kb9qi0XNRW8Alp2dbgcmo7GaWl7S4jugyhZ/ttHin/Cahva8BPW DyLQw5yXwU9DkVOfAn4rW1v3KV+yiYKlDh5O8QwPGVvxri69Xss+FMHkFQfrhgqanY5CpH/be ROvAL39RNH0XgGVeUS7clMBPya2+ygho2/liWTaEGH2wrMdyG29GVD9v4lqz7dKCD3KY83M7x LtP9Zikp8HPFJgvlsXIc9LJFblo+VqzDKn1fnNKwL8nkCUnqmrOiPPWA5KTynx8XLK5+sC6pX nEVRPoHfUH0ZwlWC4u+CGo3i2Gb19OjLeIZ3zEMSDONO9+8scO73ZBUvjeOX/rUMuZAKaM+Qv X9mIISqOH6oz7ynNUxf8i385uH0AzSjnTyhTJ5aM78rHQO1Jt2KBi1Fwv5+17Kd4/ZhnIOAj2 xrpqKawQeMb9At2uzH11BORarw/lQQUR+PsX8wD5E+acOC1+5OhEz2ic1FvZUelf/C6j5FrAS fwezLDQoxSP0uu2yef5seG0LTj+n/TnXKNqTFdEGPVDKLKa/ocDzzLbAnxG1qqOLiLB/ai8x4 5EYTqZ9laq57uLwCVhWHhnEbIw4= Subject: Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 18:11:03 -0000 Hi Jack, > On Nov 14, 2023, at 13:02, Jack Haverty via Nnagain = wrote: >=20 > If video conferencing worked well enough, they would not have to all = get together in one place and would instead hold IETF meetings online = ...? [SM] Turns out that humans are social creatures, and some things = work better face-to-face and in the hallway (and if that is only = building trust and sympathy) than over any remote technology. > Did anyone measure latency? Does anyone measure throughput of = "useful" traffic - e.g., excluding video/audio data that didn't arrive = in time to be actually used on the screen or speaker? [SM] Utility is in the eye of the beholder, no? >=20 > Jack Haverty >=20 >=20 > On 11/14/23 09:25, Vint Cerf via Nnagain wrote: >> if they had not been all together they would have been consuming tons = of video capacity doing video conference calls.... >>=20 >> :-)) >> v >>=20 >>=20 >> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain = wrote: >> On the subject of how much bandwidth does one household need, here's = a fun stat for you. >>=20 >> =20 >> At the IETF=E2=80=99s 118th meeting last week (Nov 4 =E2=80=93 10, = 2023), there were over 1,000 engineers in attendance. At peak there were = 870 devices connected to the WiFi network. Peak bandwidth usage: >>=20 >> =E2=80=A2 Downstream peak ~750 Mbps >> =E2=80=A2 Upstream ~250 Mbps >> =20 >> =46rom my pre-meeting Twitter poll = (https://twitter.com/jlivingood/status/1720060429311901873): >>=20 >> >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Nnagain mailing list >> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to: >> Vint Cerf >> Google, LLC >> 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor >> Reston, VA 20190 >> +1 (571) 213 1346 >>=20 >>=20 >> until further notice >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Nnagain mailing list >>=20 >> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain