Re: [NNagain] FCC NOI due dec 1 on broadband speed standards

[Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>]

Hi Dave,

On 14 November 2023 11:06:54 GMT-05:00, Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>As I noted also on the twitter thread for this, were I there, and
>dishonest, (particularly were gobs of money on the table) I could easily
>have permuted the bandwidth on both tests hugely upwards from a single
>laptop by running continuous speedtests. But speedtests are not what we do
>day in or out, and reflect normal usage not at all.
>
>The 83% of people (experts!!!) that were wrong is ... mindboggling.


[SM] The optimist in me reads this as only 27% were really off... I also note the options had an odd scaling, neither liner, nor logarithmic, making it hard to make inferences.

>
>PS What wifi standard was at ietf? Is this still the old ciscos? The
>headline bandwidths claimed for any version of wifi drop dramatically at
>distance and with multiple users present.  So it might have taken a couple
>laptops out of the thousand there to move the stats in a perverse
>direction, now that I think about it.
>
>Thank you for doing this experiment! While there are certainly also cases
>were mass groupings of people totally saturate the underlying mac (more
>than the perceived bandwidth - I have seen congestion collapse and a sea of
>retransmits even in small wifi gatherings), the only number that seems a
>bit off  in your test from a typical residential/small office is the
>roughly 3.5x1 ratio between down and up. I am willing (for now) to put that
>down to engineers doing actual work, rather than netflix.

[SM] +1; the typical high down/up ratio for home users is partly a result of offering mostly heavily asymmetric links, users inherently learn what they can use a link for...

Regards
        Sebastian



>
>I would so love to see more measurements like this at other wifi
>concentration points, in offices and coffee shops. Packet captures too!!!!
>
>On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 10:46 AM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain <
>nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> On the subject of how much bandwidth does one household need, here's a fun
>> stat for you.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the IETF’s 118th meeting <https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/118/> last
>> week (Nov 4 – 10, 2023), there were over 1,000 engineers in attendance. At
>> peak there were 870 devices connected to the WiFi network. Peak bandwidth
>> usage:
>>
>>    - Downstream peak ~750 Mbps
>>    - Upstream ~250 Mbps
>>
>>
>>
>> From my pre-meeting Twitter poll (
>> https://twitter.com/jlivingood/status/1720060429311901873):
>>
>> [image: A screenshot of a chat Description automatically generated]
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>
>

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