From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bosmailout03.eigbox.net (bosmailout03.eigbox.net [66.96.187.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00F1B3B29D; Wed, 4 Oct 2023 15:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bosmailscan06.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.6]) by bosmailout03.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1qo81H-0004vj-Ef; Wed, 04 Oct 2023 15:58:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alum.mit.edu; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=JM5HJ2JMLhLvm0UbACkINQL/vYrgKi8c/pXfUTDoT6Y=; b=WTMUCsOhgedkY30STcmZXAv6mW YZ0VCbj1FINaqIwJS6S8PTz0jH1VGy1uVD3HBE3EJA0RTZP++JXVUpO8zlJSkflHnTkNfowX6HaSg Snb+Ap6d20p6/kdJavqdNjLIEdT2amUX2pb8pUDzt9c8oeUlxFccD5qN6BWH5MFPAKhObzzcqOFl7 Wl1YsmJA6SGPgiMoDLcZXg9r3Z93SGxAP5VM2qILsCcBRbCgrv/KUf13wlgM/d0xBWhlHqDS+pVbi A6RhSpjd/bP0orRIyGJ6lTsDQmjs11DFNgaKiq4fKNHJYbErdvdNg7B3i6x2bBw7uzNBMq0S07ARh VWl1emUw==; Received: from [10.115.3.32] (helo=bosimpout12) by bosmailscan06.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1qo81H-00045D-72; Wed, 04 Oct 2023 15:58:55 -0400 Received: from bosauthsmtp07.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.7]) by bosimpout12 with id tvys2A005099BUA01vyvRr; Wed, 04 Oct 2023 15:58:55 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=d4VuNSrE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=x8qw8EAkfcRkIpZA8Q87Bg==:117 a=tKttg/DTfI8zZz0UFxdR5w==:17 a=iJSdLNpCJlB1i7az:21 a=bhdUkHdE2iEA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=kurRqvosAAAA:8 a=vyo-Ye8WAAAA:8 a=VBrr3fY4AAAA:8 a=6ESwRw38EFugHBroMbYA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=A-FjmJD-NaQA:10 a=mNQvkGy_vq0A:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=cHIrVm65-ZEZgR_K-YYA:9 a=Kw-DFS0vCTFfknDW:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=kbxRQ_lfPIoQnHsAj2-A:22 a=dePXozO5e8i0JBlEE4B6:22 a=yNRfW_qsmifYgiPTrbn0:22 Received: from c-73-158-253-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([73.158.253.41]:55056 helo=SRA6) by bosauthsmtp07.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1qo81D-0003Ye-MH; Wed, 04 Oct 2023 15:58:51 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Dick Roy" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=B4s_make_the_technical_as?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?pects_heard_this_time!'?= Cc: "'rjmcmahon'" , "'bloat'" References: <20231003205640.3.f99276b66eff3df4@mg-d1.substack.com> <6babb0efe14e124790978723c89f2434@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: <6babb0efe14e124790978723c89f2434@rjmcmahon.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 12:58:47 -0700 Organization: SRA Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0321_01D9F6C2.863C5710" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Adn2+rE9brLKhdMuQL6aC3yFBezQkAAAfHdw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE X-EN-UserInfo: f809475445fb8041985048e338e1a001:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: dickroy@intellicommunications.com Sender: "Dick Roy" X-EN-OrigIP: 73.158.253.41 X-EN-OrigHost: c-73-158-253-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net Subject: Re: [NNagain] A good question - do you know how a toilet works? X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2023 19:58:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0321_01D9F6C2.863C5710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See highlighted text below. To follow up on the previous posting on = =93amoral capitalism=94, the tincture of mercury was being promoted by those with mercury to sell, while a good blood-letting was being promoted by leech farmers trying to generate a market for their products! The analogy is surprisingly tight! :-)=20 =20 Cheers, =20 RR =20 -----Original Message----- From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf = Of rjmcmahon via Nnagain Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 12:41 PM To: Network Neutrality is back! Let=B4s make the technical aspects heard = this time! Cc: rjmcmahon; bloat Subject: Re: [NNagain] A good question - do you know how a toilet works? =20 Some books I found worth reading =20 https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=3D9780674416833 =20 Eden on the Charles The Making of Boston Michael Rawson =20 Eden on the Charles explores how Bostonians channeled country lakes=20 through miles of pipeline to provide clean water; dredged the ocean to=20 deepen the harbor; filled tidal flats and covered the peninsula with=20 houses, shops, and factories; and created a metropolitan system of parks = and greenways, facilitating the conversion of fields into suburbs. The=20 book shows how, in Boston, different class and ethnic groups brought=20 rival ideas of nature and competing visions of a =93city upon a hill=94 = to=20 the process of urbanization=97and were forced to conform their goals to=20 the realities of Boston=92s distinctive natural setting. The outcomes of = their battles for control over the city=92s development were ultimately=20 recorded in the very fabric of Boston itself. In Boston=92s history, we=20 find the seeds of the environmental relationships that=97for better or=20 worse=97have defined urban America to this day. =20 https://upittpress.org/books/9780822961475/#:~:text=3DJacobson's%20Ties%2= 0That %20Bind%20is,the%20course%20of%20two%20centuries. =20 Ties That Bind By Charles Jacobson =20 In the early days of utility development, municipalities sought to shape = the new systems in a variety of ways even as private firms struggled to=20 retain control and fend off competition. In scope and consequence, some=20 of the battles dwarfed the contemporary one between local jurisdictions=20 and cable companies over broadband access to the Internet. In this=20 comparative historical study, Jacobson draws upon economic theory to=20 shed light on relationships between technology, market forces, and=20 problems of governance that have arisen in connection with different=20 utility networks over the past two hundred years. He focuses on water,=20 electric, and cable television utility networks and on experiences in=20 four major American cities =97 Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, and=20 Pittsburgh, arguing that information and transactions costs have played=20 decisive roles in determining how different ownership and regulatory=20 arrangements have functioned in different situations.Using primary=20 sources and bold conceptualizations, Jacobson begins his study by=20 examining the creation of centralized water systems in the first half of = the nineteenth century, moves to the building of electric utilities from = the 1880s to the 1980s, and concludes with an analysis of cable=20 television franchising from the 1960s to the 1980s. Ties That Bind=20 addresses highly practical questions of how to make ownership,=20 regulatory, and contracting arrangements work better and also explores=20 broader concerns about private monopoly and the role of government in=20 society. =20 Bob > Sometimes I liken this debate about the internet, to 1906-era > partisans arguing about the right cures for syphilis. One side, > intoning with great authority: "Tinctures of mercury, yes a good dose > of mercury, is just what you need... " and the other side, insisting > that "Leeches, leeches will help... all you need is a good > blood-letting... and everything will be fine..." >=20 > While those few that had embraced germ theory and were pointing at > little squiggly things in microscopes as the root causes of so much > disease, were laughed at and ignored. > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain _______________________________________________ Nnagain mailing list Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain ------=_NextPart_000_0321_01D9F6C2.863C5710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

See highlighted text below.=A0 To follow up on the previous = posting on “amoral capitalism”, the tincture of mercury was being promoted by those = with mercury to sell, while a good blood-letting was being promoted by leech farmers = trying to generate a market for their products!=A0 The analogy is surprisingly = tight! J =

 

Cheers,

 

RR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf = Of rjmcmahon via Nnagain
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 12:41 PM
To: Network Neutrality is back! Let=B4s make the technical aspects heard = this time!
Cc: rjmcmahon; bloat
Subject: Re: [NNagain] A good question - do you know how a toilet = works?

 

Some books I found worth reading

 

https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=3D9780674416833=

 

Eden on the Charles

The Making of Boston

Michael Rawson

 

Eden on the Charles explores how Bostonians channeled country lakes =

through miles of pipeline to provide clean water; dredged the = ocean to

deepen the harbor; filled tidal flats and covered the peninsula = with

houses, shops, and factories; and created a metropolitan system = of parks

and greenways, facilitating the conversion of fields into = suburbs. The

book shows how, in Boston, different class and ethnic groups brought

rival ideas of nature and competing visions of a “city = upon a hill” to

the process of urbanization—and were forced to conform = their goals to

the realities of Boston’s distinctive natural setting. The outcomes of =

their battles for control over the city’s development were = ultimately

recorded in the very fabric of Boston itself. In Boston’s history, we

find the seeds of the environmental relationships that—for = better or

worse—have defined urban America to this = day.

 

https://upittpress.org/books/9780822961475/#:~:text=3DJacobson's%= 20Ties%20That%20Bind%20is,the%20course%20of%20two%20centuries.=

 

Ties That Bind

By Charles Jacobson

 

In the early days of utility development, municipalities sought = to shape

the new systems in a variety of ways even as private firms = struggled to

retain control and fend off competition. In scope and = consequence, some

of the battles dwarfed the contemporary one between local = jurisdictions

and cable companies over broadband access to the Internet. In = this

comparative historical study, Jacobson draws upon economic = theory to

shed light on relationships between technology, market forces, = and

problems of governance that have arisen in connection with = different

utility networks over the past two hundred years. He focuses on = water,

electric, and cable television utility networks and on = experiences in

four major American cities — Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, and

Pittsburgh, arguing that information and transactions costs have played =

decisive roles in determining how different ownership and = regulatory

arrangements have functioned in different situations.Using = primary

sources and bold conceptualizations, Jacobson begins his study = by

examining the creation of centralized water systems in the first = half of

the nineteenth century, moves to the building of electric = utilities from

the 1880s to the 1980s, and concludes with an analysis of cable =

television franchising from the 1960s to the 1980s. Ties That = Bind

addresses highly practical questions of how to make ownership, =

regulatory, and contracting arrangements work better and also = explores

broader concerns about private monopoly and the role of = government in

society.

 

Bob

> Sometimes I liken this debate about the internet, to 1906-era

> partisans arguing about the right cures = for syphilis. One side,

> intoning with great authority: = "Tinctures of mercury, yes a good dose

> of mercury, is just what you need... = " and the other side, insisting

> that "Leeches, leeches will help... = all you need is a=A0 good

> blood-letting... and everything will be fine..."

>

> While those few that had embraced germ theory and were = pointing at

> little squiggly things in microscopes as the root causes of = so much

> disease, were laughed at and = ignored.

> = _______________________________________________<= /p>

> Nnagain mailing list

> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net

> = https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain

_______________________________________________=

Nnagain mailing list

Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net

https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain<= /font>

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