From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x62a.google.com (mail-ej1-x62a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49C6F3B29E for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2025 09:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-ac2a089fbbdso782343866b.1 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2025 06:02:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1742216556; x=1742821356; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=yX8S9GXrRyot5mBCyQSbYb3QuhZDmFDeZgRIehLpt0k=; b=TaI6N+FxQs7tOWaTSH37kB3O1WYN4O1DLlzt7jl7ydzPjoHHXrfs3XBoObfg7ZvDkw /kMw9x4HeTc59QaWWfj69E2VSHOAu+AR2PJSzHbLd2DkdzKtYo9KbpHBt6cBl7WrS++h eBsbTqmILY9zC0BIiPnOjvusR7S3i17qnLNpBY9cpL2txLFE2pDShOTbHg+9uBQ+S/UM /pPTCMdUG0kGdyExWW6rp9sOl0CTMlwvh69X4LTcoH48iUwWIS/kow0d+3eBh5RUvX8p k+L4ppsfSZaFchvELy4GnefG6M7CyKCHsnOieQ5OG5uRmY4iyjcRUwTV/e80pOyEkW2N 3KwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1742216556; x=1742821356; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=yX8S9GXrRyot5mBCyQSbYb3QuhZDmFDeZgRIehLpt0k=; b=VLEHHqu+bZ3nM6JQmdpAmTGVucVijMesRzrdVlL1sdtelz7HAoy88Jaqz2q1AoOQpL 73Cu3/7qMICATowItSa6i+BnCZJR+j8d5uHgOH9hmXlqY5xHHQiWiefKZTjjoZp7nYi/ SalWrds0FSmPa4TTPKJcf/UWTCx6MF5QtXqbkau3cSXSOzjEOb3rHF9/iL3UTBPdk8au 9Hi87iKSim/guNScEMdUUCL59icKoAyR255ytoej29a4ni/PEEtfGbz/qm/z2OnFDUJc +W2DBIbkCfzBsKPKdZPX9VdxyQq3whEV2bRtX7DDkcu17jUm/zQHwsRAxK0ByK21hi7Z FohA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw/o0Zqal4Ixxl3aNHhO1a1GemL0NxaJBtpKisW6DmyDSAcwwKc ZYckrgJgHVKvjbVjIzHf09hk4yj9PvVVr1JmSbpIR9apDExTpz81+AKc5EkUZmZa/2UKIpYYGB5 sI/zA8zv4a9ErtRjdTc2SAnW5ZaxJcbO9 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctEf1esWNGudnDwdYwwQq+nGiJQp0R295mmG6MDJMs8xcL51oJSojHZt90GnQO tTrDTGEE/LwS7WE2XR4UcvRxfHKvK2suXi/8nk/i3TvtDiH7wAAxmrxjF2Ylhn08pWtAyYgiFMF sslHgcB48gkHXGScODU3DuJFbnGw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGH8n1SDdi5tJkVRw0DuQuSBW4WmYdzw3TUdH3UFNCBQGkIc2bBsBRH4QUEUciQPeJ3osf8jXa10uRqI/ecGUc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:c247:b0:abf:6ead:2e57 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-ac31250719fmr1618614266b.24.1742216554808; Mon, 17 Mar 2025 06:02:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "David Bray, PhD" Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2025 09:01:37 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JqPm0X2zGDCWQ9AW2hToEGguYJBk0yJDT6CuoU5DgWCaiIg0TjoIC8YUqI Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Cc: "Douglas Goncz A.A.S. M.E.T. 1990" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000df0ce40630896680" Subject: Re: [NNagain] Hurling rocks into Earth's gravity well X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2025 13:02:37 -0000 --000000000000df0ce40630896680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aye, with a rail gun (either solar powered with significant battery reserves or hydrogen powered should we finally get to a source of water on the Moon) to help with the initial acceleration, it does make a Moon base a challenging. For the Moon, there is a slight lag effect so for near real-time comms, LEO (or VLEO) is much better, however if one is looking for data centers on the Moon and can build them with dust-resistant solid state parts (astronauts who went to the Moon report the Moon dust getting everywhere) that becomes interesting=E2=80=A6 and raises fun questions that I have been asking since= 2017 with different audiences to gauge their answers: * a financial transaction resulting in a net monetary gain happens on a data center on the Moon, who pays - if anyone - any tax applications? * using a lunar 3D printer and other fabrication processes, the chassis for a satellite is printed and the satellite ultimately assembled out of multiple parts. The satellite is then launched from the Moon, what is the listed =E2=80=9Cflag=E2=80=9D or country of origin for the launched satelli= te? * if a permanent Moon base is established on the surface of the Moon looking back at Earth, how many countries and/or companies have encrypted their ground-to-orbit satellite communications to prevent them from being received by a Moon base that=E2=80=99s also looking directly at Earth as th= e Earth revolves and the Moon completes its orbit? Moon in the middle (well to be more accurate, Moon overhead) RF attacks anyone? *David Bray, PhD *Principal, LeadDoAdapt Ventures, Inc. Chair of the Accelerator & Distinguish= ed Fellow , Stimson Center Senior Fellow , Inst. for Human-Machine Cognition & Expert, MIT Horizon On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 08:41 Douglas Goncz A.A.S. M.E.T. 1990 via Nnagain = < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Hello Dr. David. > > > The gravity at the surface of the Moon is larger than might be expected > since the volume to radius ratio is as r squared, so that with a differen= ce > of 100 times that is a factor of 100x in gravity at surface we can predic= t > that the rocks they'll be throwing at us we'll be falling up that is thro= wn > out of the gravity wall for 1/10 the trip roughly and falling down that i= s > falling into that gravity well for 9/10 of the trip causing an overall > Factor of enormous acceleration. Offhand I would say the process would > achieve 80% of escape velocity. > > The Australian science agency has a nice chart out for asteroid type > objects on their website. It summarizes the relationship between the many > many small rocks which are in our system and the very few large rocks whi= ch > accompany them as they move at various speeds knowing only statistical > information about how many rocks of which size and how fast they're movin= g > and what energy the net result is > > They quote figures of atta joules. So once given the upward that is > towards the Earth impetus a mere Boulder could do really significant dama= ge > assuming that the transit time could be controlled carefully in their was > either accurate aiming or some type of midcourse correction to get the > target secured. > > Trying to find my way back on topic to Net neutrality. Maybe a moon base > could be set up with a transmitter powered by a small nuclear reactor > receiving signals from Earth and retransmitting them to make the > connections for data and voice. Compared to lofting a satellite having th= e > time to construct such an item on the surface of the Moon would be > advantageous the way it seems to me. I'm pretty sure that a satellite wou= ld > have to be put into place in orbit with its power supply and all that and > that's what starling does bloody bloody blah. > > By the way I'm running for president. > / / < GONCZ2028 > / > > > Cheers > Doug > > > > >> >> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024, 10:04 AM David Bray, PhD >> wrote: >> >> ... >> > >> > Meanwhile China probably will land humans on the moon within the next >> four >> > years of whomever is the next U.S. President. That may happen before t= he >> > U.S. returns to the Moon. Either way, a "base" on the Moon by 2035 >> (which >> > is PRC's goal) even if it's robots - or humans with the risk of loss o= f >> > life) raises some challenges in terms of SIGINT, GEOINT, and the gener= al >> > ability to hurl rocks into Earth's gravity well.... > > > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --000000000000df0ce40630896680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Aye, with a rail gun (either solar powered with= significant battery reserves or hydrogen powered should we finally get to = a source of water on the Moon) to help with the initial acceleration, it do= es make a Moon base a challenging.=C2=A0

<= div dir=3D"auto">For the Moon, there is a slight lag effect so for near rea= l-time comms, LEO (or VLEO) is much better, however if one is looking for d= ata centers on the Moon and can build them with dust-resistant solid state = parts (astronauts who went to the Moon report the Moon dust getting everywh= ere) that becomes interesting=E2=80=A6 and raises fun questions that I have= been asking since 2017 with different audiences to gauge their answers:=C2= =A0

* a financial transa= ction resulting in a net monetary gain happens on a data center on the Moon= , who pays - if anyone - any tax applications?=C2=A0

* using a lunar 3D printer and other fabricati= on processes, the chassis for a satellite is printed and the satellite ulti= mately assembled out of multiple parts. The satellite is then launched from= the Moon, what is the listed =E2=80=9Cflag=E2=80=9D or country of origin f= or the launched satellite?=C2=A0

* if a permanent Moon base is established on the surface of the M= oon looking back at Earth, how many countries and/or companies have encrypt= ed their ground-to-orbit satellite communications to prevent them from bein= g received by a Moon base that=E2=80=99s also looking directly at Earth as = the Earth revolves and the Moon completes its orbit?=C2=A0

Moon in the middle (well to be more accu= rate, Moon overhead) RF attacks anyone?=C2=A0

David Bray, Ph= D=C2=A0Principal,=C2=A0LeadDoAdapt=C2=A0Ventures, Inc.=C2=A0
=
Chair of the= =C2=A0Accelerator=C2=A0&=C2=A0Distinguished Fello= w,=C2=A0Stimson Center
Senior Fellow,=C2=A0Inst. for Human-Machine Cognition= =C2=A0& Expert,=C2=A0MIT Horizon

On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 08:41 Douglas Goncz A= .A.S. M.E.T. 1990 via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
<= /div>
Hello Dr. David.
The gravity at the surface of the Moon is larger = than might be expected since the volume to radius ratio is as r squared, so= that with a difference of 100 times that is a factor of 100x in gravity at= surface we can predict that the rocks they'll be throwing at us we'= ;ll be falling up that is thrown out of the gravity wall for 1/10 the trip = roughly and falling down that is falling into that gravity well for 9/10 of= the trip causing an overall Factor of enormous acceleration. Offhand I wou= ld say the process would achieve 80% of escape velocity.

The Australian science agency has a nice c= hart out for asteroid type objects on their website. It summarizes the rela= tionship between the many many small rocks which are in our system and the = very few large rocks which accompany them as they move at various speeds kn= owing only statistical information about how many rocks of which size and h= ow fast they're moving and what energy the net result is=C2=A0

They quote figures of atta joule= s. So once given the upward that is towards the Earth impetus a mere Boulde= r could do really significant damage assuming that the transit time could b= e controlled carefully in their was either accurate aiming or some type of = midcourse correction to get the target secured.

=
Trying to find my way back on topic to Net neutrali= ty. Maybe a moon base could be set up with a transmitter powered by a small= nuclear reactor receiving signals from Earth and retransmitting them to ma= ke the connections for data and voice. Compared to lofting a satellite havi= ng the time to construct such an item on the surface of the Moon would be a= dvantageous the way it seems to me. I'm pretty sure that a satellite wo= uld have to be put into place in orbit with its power supply and all that a= nd that's what starling does bloody bloody blah.

By the way I'm running for president.=C2= =A0
/ / < GONCZ2028 > /


Cheers
Doug





On Mon, Oct 7, 2024, 10:04 AM David Bray, PhD <david.a.br= ay@gmail.com>
wrote:

...
>
> Meanwhile China probably will land humans on the moon within the next = four
> years of whomever is the next U.S. President. That may happen before t= he
> U.S. returns to the Moon. Either way, a "base" on the Moon b= y 2035 (which
> is PRC's goal) even if it's robots - or humans with the risk o= f loss of
> life) raises some challenges in terms of SIGINT, GEOINT, and the gener= al
> ability to hurl rocks into Earth's gravity well....
>


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