Re: [NNagain] The growing challenges of discerning authentic vs. inauthentic information and identity

["David Bray, PhD" <david.a.bray@gmail.com>]

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Also signatures and the like only work for things where you actively
attest.

What if it's a supposed photo, video, or other claims that a person did (or
did not do) something. Sadly we know eyewitness testimony actually is
replete with errors... which is why heretofore "roll the video tape"
(you're at least a Gen X'er or older if you recall video tapes) has been
what courts relied upon:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

What do we do if that's now questioned? Watermarking of photos, audio, and
videos can be overcome - and, sadly, may actually super-empower either
surveillance states or authoritarian states to "control" media. So free and
pluralistic societies will be especially challenged here?


On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 5:08 PM David Lang via Nnagain <
nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> signatures work, but how do you know what signatures to trust? the current
> approach of 'trust signatures where they have paid one of a few companies'
> is
> not going to work. There will need to be some sort of decentralized
> reputation
> system where you can pick who you trust
>
> Yes, some people will chose to trust people who feed them fakes. That is
> better
> than giving any one entity the ability to declare anything as "true, don't
> you
> dare question it" (as we have seen over the last few years)
>
> David Lang
>
>
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote:
>
> > Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 15:17:12 -0500
> > From: Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard
> this
> >     time! <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NNagain] The growing challenges of discerning authentic vs.
> >     inauthentic information and identity
> >
> > Basically I am interested in the intersection between politics and the
> > internet in the context of this list, which is broader than the NN
> > issue. So I appreciate monday conversation starters like these.
> >
> > In my case, I often have to revert to thinking about the present in
> > terms of what used to be science fiction. "Interface" - upon
> > cogitating about what the coming election will look like came to mind
> > -  https://www.amazon.com/Interface-Stephen-Bury/dp/0553572407
> >
> > When I first saw the deepfakes Pr0n phenomenon a few years ago, I had
> > my oh-ghu moment, as I realized once tools like that got into
> > everyone's hands the truth and authenticity of any form of media begin
> > to vanish, and the recent rise of the LLMs *almost* put the finish to
> > it. Thankfully the LLMs (so far) have a terrible tendency to
> > hallucinate which is often easily detectable, and overall, the
> > technoliterati have managed to expel really bad ideas like
> > crypto-grift, web3, and so on in the last few years. Web3 investment
> > is down 70% this year...
> >
> > I now wish very much that the concept of "whuffie" existed in the real
> > world, but the flight to mastodon, twitter's addition of community
> > notes, most of newspapers moving to a for-pay model, and in general,
> > the innoculation of the populace at large to distrust everything they
> > learn on line is well underway which I find some comfort in.
> >
> > Promoting widespread skepticism and disbelief are powerful tools, but
> > trying to find guidelines to what is actually truthful harder. For
> > example, I read wikipedia's talk page on everything controversial. Too
> > few do that. I recently sat through fox news with my mom, because her
> > blood pressure was too low, and it served well to "improve" that, and
> > me, take a lisinopril.
> >
> > Life's just a ride, tho, you know?
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_the_Magic_Kingdom
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM David Bray, PhD via Nnagain
> > <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear NNAgain’ers,
> >>
> >> Today on a different listserv, I joined a discussion on what I sense
> will be a pressing issue across multiple sectors in 2024. I recognize this
> is not NN-related and so if it isn’t of interest, I apologize in advance.
> However as most of us have technology background here, my sense is we
> generally have a better sense of the looming issue than non-technical folks
> at the moment. Below I outline some of the contours of the evolving problem
> space, and invite each of you to share your thoughts as I sense the
> diversity of perspectives here might help with brainstorming potential
> solutions necessary for civil societies to continue:
> >>
> >> Premise: We are at the precipice of an extended era where
> inauthenticity vs. authenticity will be difficult to discern, that that
> involves multiple forms of content including biometrics and more.
> >>
> >> In isolated pockets, governments are becoming aware of this - however
> it’s going to be really difficult for pluralistic societies like the U.S.
> where any of the Estates that traditionally would have a role to play in
> verifying the authentic vs. inauthentic nature of something have had public
> trust in them as arbiters eroding. And it doesn’t help that both politics
> and advertisement rely on presenting things as 100% authentic when they’re
> often only somewhat so (or, to be more generous, mix facts with lots of
> beliefs).
> >>
> >> Not supporting autocracies, however they have a bit of a “home field”
> advantage here because there is only one singular narrative - and anyone
> who questions it can be fired/isolated, imprisoned/disappeared, or
> killed/executed. Tools of such regimes, to include filtering, censorship,
> and repression - will be used to ensure only one narrative (authentic or
> not, mostly likely the latter) is seen by a majority of their population.
> Pluralistic societies will have it much harder, and the last ten years will
> pale in comparison to the challenges of sensemaking in a world flooded by
> both media and mediums of questionable authenticity.
> >>
> >> Back in 2019-2020, I did my darnest to connect Pablo and an additional
> People-Centered Internet expert with Salesforce that has a lot of CRM data
> with the proposal that SF could provide a feature where, as part of the
> CRM, “out of band” questions could be included to do some sort of
> additional level of trust that the entity on the other end was who they
> claimed to be. Unfortunately that pitch was overshadowed by larger concerns
> that SF’s software, give some of its features, could be misused in ways not
> intended by them (think about ways akin to Cambridge Analytica) and they
> were trying to figure out how they could incorporate features to prevent
> actors from misusing/abusing their software in ways not intended by them as
> a company.
> >>
> >> 2024 is going to be hard. Manipulation of what people appear to see,
> hear, sense - and thus know - is becoming sadly easier.
> >>
> >> Meanwhile understanding of the importance of triangulation,
> triangulation, triangulation from different perspective to discern
> authenticity vs. inauthenticity remains time-consuming and hard. Perhaps we
> need to consider standing up private sector Dun & Bradstreet-like entities
> for identity and other important adjudicatory functions - however that
> doesn’t immediately solve the issue of how to help the public in a would
> experiencing a flood of questionable content, information, and identities?
> And who “watches” the adjudicators?
> >>
> >> David Bray, PhD Principal, LeadDoAdapt Ventures, Inc.
> >> Loomis Innovation Council Co-Chair & Distinguished Fellow
> >> Henry S. Stimson Center, Business Executives for National Security
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Nnagain mailing list
> >> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 40 years of net history, a couple songs:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9RGX6QFm5E
> > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nnagain mailing list
> > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> _______________________________________________
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