From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x52b.google.com (mail-ed1-x52b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 785E23B29D for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 10:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5bed68129a7so3278206a12.2 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 07:41:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1724078464; x=1724683264; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ZYqZs4yqJ/siatP1wh2FsbqWNXMGpg7KmMo0NYGjB5M=; b=euJSK1oPClXZEnjmql+t5oWWxUNyEVsC+rXd6j6bwc0gLep/7/Ek3r4fSv+6eauH2E rnDkJJ1rYpLWTXlkYJ1A09BTEhtEbruUrqpfNYO565u0z5h5d4+2OsLUluFQRUBUC7WY pAYm1iXDfZGqU9HIkuzh28DgfWxKQTmWciocowGsCPceKV4rpqscxF5QfPy26q8taqOK IMv3nfk2QpU1XpVQINZxjdU/RSGywG+q4Y9lDhCT0HPIUEknDxnLkLm8WBlQ9qZsf1iM AgY0QtfFiwfihSsAUfH7urUShSqqi94rHB1Ka0QSsMbeqztYmU30qj7t8dEUIID12jN2 8IUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1724078464; x=1724683264; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ZYqZs4yqJ/siatP1wh2FsbqWNXMGpg7KmMo0NYGjB5M=; b=hQiA7WkVx7SKQOo5MF1X36L+V65JYPpva/MiiZnp5N47b5bZI27LMm6kY0PF9aCXGS +M2RjS7AtJ/0uv+ndPpDf58GUO3EGfDOZmUqOWOxJXCORHqspxbPsFhul9ytuZ6b3HJL vOB4VQCB/Op2w6fMYEz/bqGu70PbsqRO8sMJ9eQpX8kh0d+cep+ulsp4AAHam1fhSO3s /e+iGIhGGTDhVlSI/LsrdT1SITyeksAarsMLgaODgEho15lMwK+qb89SiG6p+aM+TDpi e8pz4qtpB2qSTTdDKnHYMfa5wAGEGyKhyoHaFeOoUfLYQvZ16PJRfPJL/Ilpbt9kMOU7 ZWBQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX6SHVP+suEwXOA9PUEiFayMcC1Uh3lAH3zrJKS4+PknJZes33phzYQTlwqOrGQGSlC8MBcoCts@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxzMEGphbYI+QglEUccszJvGOODQVxr0qjjsGSd3P8IkLrkiNTX 8LEyuue3+pA6EBZ8jEHL6+kZAlv872C24ICoGyIouFsx0YEboFsgGFA80fw0CkNfUtQ4GvXjeel KrmzX1ZkMS+oaA7E4fRQN+X8xDwo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IECjRhvGVvJQJTWLxvJU6uY8vyDlFUpgW/91FQ73fH3mCjurAFnYTnqDvK8D4SJa5w5zmk/pxHgZ2IbqpowNtA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:51c7:b0:5be:fc44:d146 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5befc44d697mr2373995a12.20.1724078463543; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 07:41:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4CFA1F4CC17A444EAFF9A96F1D7CDB2B@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <4CFA1F4CC17A444EAFF9A96F1D7CDB2B@SRA6> From: "David Bray, PhD" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 10:40:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu, =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspect?= =?UTF-8?Q?s_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000062721f06200a4c9a" Subject: Re: [NNagain] public service website slowness X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 14:41:05 -0000 --00000000000062721f06200a4c9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Part of the challenge is that several government websites usually only have a budget allocated to launch them - and then they collect dust (the O&M long-tail). So the lament is that a website that was made 18-25 years ago is slow to load nowadays (keeping in mind that client-side javascript wasn't really an option back then either). A much bigger problem is making sure legislators when they appropriate funds for a project that is intended to continue for multiple decades - those appropriators need to also include in that budget continuous refreshes to both the web UI/UX as well as the security posture. That's the other side of the issue, when legacy technology isn't funded IT security postures get progressively worse as sites get more and more out of date. Meanwhile we also need to encourage ways for continuous updates to both the UI/UX and the security to be done that aren't captured by incumbents who use this knowledge of the ins and outs of both the technology systems and associated human systems to charge inflated prices to keep things updated too? ... and this isn't only for government organizations. Ask Delta about their IT infrastructure and how when Crowdstrike/Microsoft Cloud hiccupped, how that created a ripple effect for them and their UI/UX too. O&M tied to legacy IT does have substantial impacts. On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 12:03=E2=80=AFAM Dick Roy via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Speed is not the problem =E2=80=A6 it=E2=80=99s how information to be tra= nsmitted is > encoded and more importantly, how much redundant info is being sent. It= =E2=80=99s > the MS mindset =E2=80=A6 give me a faster processor and more memory and I= =E2=80=99ll give > you more bloated code to fill it up! When you put kindergarteners in > charge, you get a kindergarten solution! JJJ > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] *On Behalf > Of *Dave Taht via Nnagain > *Sent:* Sunday, August 18, 2024 7:03 PM > *To:* Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects h= eard > this time!; bloat > *Cc:* Dave Taht > *Subject:* [NNagain] public service website slowness > > > > This was a damning analysis of many government websites' speed. > > > > https://infrequently.org/2024/08/object-lesson/#the-golden-wait > > > > > -- > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --00000000000062721f06200a4c9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Part of the challenge is that several government webs= ites usually only have a budget allocated to launch them - and then they co= llect dust (the O&M long-tail). So the lament is that a website that wa= s made 18-25 years ago is slow to load nowadays (keeping in mind that clien= t-side javascript wasn't really an option back then either).
=

A much bigger problem is making sure legislators when t= hey appropriate funds for a project that is intended to continue for multip= le decades - those appropriators need to also include in that budget contin= uous refreshes to both the web UI/UX as well as the security posture. That&= #39;s the other side of the issue, when legacy technology isn't funded = IT security postures get progressively worse as sites get more and more out= of date.

Meanwhile we also need to encourage= ways for continuous updates to both the UI/UX and the security to be done = that aren't captured by incumbents who use this knowledge of the ins an= d outs of both the technology systems and associated human systems to charg= e inflated prices to keep things updated too?

... and this isn't only for government organizations.
<= br>
Ask Delta about their IT infrastructure and how when Crowdstr= ike/Microsoft Cloud hiccupped, how that created a ripple effect for them an= d their UI/UX too. O&M tied to legacy IT does have substantial impacts.=



On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 12:03=E2= =80=AFAM Dick Roy via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
<= /div>

Speed is not the pro= blem =E2=80=A6 it=E2=80=99s how information to be transmitted is encoded and more importantly, how much redundant info = is being sent.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s the MS mindset =E2=80=A6 give me a faster processo= r and more memory and I=E2=80=99ll give you more bloated code to fill it up! When you put kindergarteners in c= harge, you get a kindergarten solution! JJJ=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

From:<= font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"> Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of Dave Taht via Nnagain
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 202= 4 7:03 PM
To: Network Neutrality is ba= ck! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects heard this time!; bloat
Cc: Dave Taht
Subject: [NNagain] public se= rvice website slowness

=C2=A0

This was a damning analysis of many government website= s' speed.

=C2=A0

https://infrequently.org/2024/08/ob= ject-lesson/#the-golden-wait


=C2=A0

--

=C2=A0

Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos

_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
--00000000000062721f06200a4c9a--