From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x62b.google.com (mail-ej1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 806E73CB40; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:49:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-ej1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a1ec87a7631so749784366b.0; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:49:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1702576140; x=1703180940; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=dzQgOWC0FLRPEHX12NboE9afS5vZeHKLcyEwst8en70=; b=Mlc1UP0MK7j0YsHhfGiKftluN8VZhoWkoK0wIiWcg+yEouDXlMBy7pyOB0fUoNRG6a WS17JGir/gzFzCpA0Zn2cgTp+ih9BsHMYNKWs6V49GTXMfFfAQ/a5HIxnHRBOngJ0TWP srRafraf+dwsJ3QzzH2O7wpFWu2TuvlOyTGfvW2ZmhxNThyaBsuQn6TFSO+peBw8C2XE XxAFaSvalpqXb+qzrIZUvl9k6LJksQ5aKo7RBTJlgh7Tqni6SNHQkYsJHOj8yf37QLOw gwRUKi5+Xm0EtxY2Tgx87MpgNM7/sAI+MXYI8snllqo2VY0OKDTwBg+ZqlZUY6J2GOaH 0amg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1702576140; x=1703180940; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=dzQgOWC0FLRPEHX12NboE9afS5vZeHKLcyEwst8en70=; b=AZAtmDOfs0VNruTzNDvkuGyjzk7rtdxxgOw1WjpTe0nRoOMdmGITX679tqJNjpCo9o Sm3qDerzOtQMMTaJVFu4zlnW22SFl5eYjr5QeqMQB3RUBksH9GNtqiWd1Av0JM9vr2sP ste0N4SUNNRVTkMU2shMbln/BkY0EYr+lRGkducRGDck6Cuc9grKMdA2FvB9m4gh1yOO KqDpyzbQU/a03SgMlxX8VsINC5pxRBARkg+176Py4UdmDjz6EuVlENP/nsHr9CRu5qT+ zTAUHDDxom7dUtwe/Rp0aY9nE7hBVxiFNIjMkCmmeU70Ns/qf5kdS1ujC+WCqi6tUYdf BSWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YymiqiQLfKyw2ATZlYTNgorcY5erEheY3xN8A9/P2HjAriFJQNI mpi1EZgWYWwoKNtplay95raW0er2ciLq5HBaTtReApI5pyU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEhBfs6hMbmC3cH2J57yWjBXkzWtLKVntCf/+/g1DfctRZsRqqdNtUHAAfZEmf29dm925Ko2hqROI+X2IgOWHU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:5354:b0:a23:f50:6517 with SMTP id j20-20020a170906535400b00a230f506517mr823828ejo.9.1702576139433; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:48:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <55037f9a-bc2c-4bbb-a4bb-47ad30f16190@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: From: "David Bray, PhD" Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:48:21 -0500 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Cc: Robert McMahon , Frantisek Borsik , Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fe7af6060c7be5fa" Subject: Re: [NNagain] [Starlink] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink's RDOF Application X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:49:02 -0000 --000000000000fe7af6060c7be5fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FCC's staff continues to shrink. 1420-or-so employees in 2022, 1755-or-so in 2012, 1952-or-so in 2004. So about a 25% reduction over the last twenty years. There are several good people there among the staff, however they also face an increasing number of tasks and demands with less resources. Public service depends on folks being willing to step up and be of service. Also, ultimately it is the decision of the Commissioners. Staff can brief the Commissioners and present evidence, the Commissioners are there to make the policy decisions. Remember Commissioners are Presidentially-appointed, Senate-confirmed which selects for certain things in keeping with our Constitution. For the staff, this means accepting that politics may supersede even the best technical briefing. Such is how representative governments work. And if you circle back to Plato's The Republic, the conclusion is such is how humanity wants it - we don't want a perfectly wise, benevolent, philosopher king. Each of us wants compromises - the difference being those specific compromises. Plato (through the voice of Socrates) also concludes humanity would probably kill a perfectly wise, benevolent, philosopher king if we were to ever have one - again because despite everyone saying they want this, they really only want such a person if that person agrees with them fully. Or as Tears for Fears aptly put it: "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" =3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DawoFZaSuko4 On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:00=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Thanks, Robert. Exactly what I meant. Therefore I added NN list, because > Nathan was engaging with us there, and with Dave (me and some others, to = my > knowledge) either directly or via his staffers and he really wanted to > catch up on tech things that are the culprits of Net Neutrality > (bufferbloat.) > > So instead of assuming that Nathan Simington and Brendan Carr are =E2=80= =9Cbought=E2=80=9D > as someone did, I can the FCC itself as an entity can be understaffed at > worse. > > But still, I appreciate efforts to learn about what=E2=80=99s going in he= re and > getting it right. > > All the best, > > Frank > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > Skype: casioa5302ca > frantisek.borsik@gmail.com > > > On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 at 3:46 AM, Robert McMahon > wrote: > >> I think this common in that appointment of commissioners go through a >> political process. The FCC has a technology group, too. When I worked wi= th >> them about 8 years ago, they had skilled researchers on staff and a high= ly >> skilled director. They asked good questions about engineering decisions, >> like what is limiting the number of mimo streams on devices. >> >> Their physical facility is a bit dated, and they don't get stock grants. >> I respect the engineers I worked with for what they did. >> >> Bob >> On Dec 13, 2023, at 2:38 PM, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain < >> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >>> I would love for Nathan to be here with us, and comment on that :-) so = I >>> will add NN list as well. >>> >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Frank >>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >>> Skype: casioa5302ca >>> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 at 11:21 PM, Richard Roy >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:* Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] *On >>>> Behalf Of *Frantisek Borsik via Starlink >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 13, 2023 1:26 PM >>>> *To:* Dave Taht via Starlink >>>> *Subject:* [Starlink] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink=E2=80=99s RDOF Ap= plication >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> =E2=80=9C*Elon Musk*=E2=80=99s Starlink was not the only major company= to inflate its >>>> capabilities >>>> in >>>> RDOF bids. Nearly 100 bidders have defaulted since the auction, leavin= g in >>>> limbo an estimated $2.8 billion >>>> of >>>> the $9.2 billion originally awarded. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The FCC upheld another denial >>>> >>>> on Monday in the case of LTD Broadband, which appealed the >>>> commission=E2=80=99s finding that it could not reasonably serve the mo= re than >>>> 500,000 locations to which it had committed. The commission also hit L= TD >>>> with a $21.7 million fine for its default. >>>> >>>> The commission=E2=80=99s two Republicans dissented to Starlink=E2=80= =99s denial, >>>> claiming they saw a path for the company to improve its speeds before = the >>>> first deployment deadline in 2025.=E2=80=9D >>>> >>>> *[RR] The reason two lawyers =E2=80=9Csaw a path=E2=80=9D is because t= hey were >>>> bribed/conned into to see it. In my nearly 50years of experience deali= ng >>>> with the FCC, extremely rarely are the people at the top in the commis= sion >>>> tech savvy. In general, they have NO CLUE when it comes to technology= =E2=80=A6 >>>> period! **JJ* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://broadbandbreakfast.com/2023/12/fcc-upholds-denial-of-starlinks= -rdof-application/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >>>> >>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >>>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >>>> Skype: casioa5302ca >>>> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com >>>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Nnagain mailing list >>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --000000000000fe7af6060c7be5fa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FCC's staff continues to shrink. 1420-or-so emplo= yees in 2022, 1755-or-so in 2012, 1952-or-so in 2004. So about a 25% reduct= ion over the last twenty years. There are several good people there among t= he staff, however they also face an increasing number of tasks and demands = with less resources. Public service depends on folks being willing to step = up and be of service.

Also, ultimately it is = the decision of the Commissioners. Staff can brief the Commissioners and pr= esent evidence, the Commissioners are there to make the policy decisions. R= emember Commissioners are Presidentially-appointed, Senate-confirmed which = selects for certain things in keeping with our Constitution. For the staff,= this means accepting that politics may supersede even the best technical b= riefing.

Such is how representative governmen= ts work. And if you circle back to Plato's The Republic, the conclusion= is such is how humanity wants it - we don't want a perfectly wise, ben= evolent, philosopher king. Each of us wants compromises - the difference be= ing those specific compromises. Plato (through the voice of Socrates) also = concludes humanity would probably kill a perfectly wise, benevolent, philos= opher king if we were to ever have one - again because despite everyone say= ing they want this, they really only want such a person if that person agre= es with them fully. Or as Tears for Fears aptly put it: "Everybody Wan= ts to Rule the World" =3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DawoFZaSuko4




On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:00=E2=80= =AFAM Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
Thanks, Robert.= Exactly what I meant. Therefore I added NN list, because Nathan was engagi= ng with us there, and with Dave (me and some others, to my knowledge) eithe= r directly or via his staffers and he really wanted to catch up on tech thi= ngs that are the culprits of Net Neutrality (bufferbloat.)

So instead of assuming that Nathan Simin= gton and Brendan Carr are =E2=80=9Cbought=E2=80=9D as someone did, I can th= e FCC itself as an entity can be understaffed at worse.

But still, I appreciate efforts to learn ab= out what=E2=80=99s going in here and getting it right.
All the best,

Frank
Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

https://www.l= inkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp:=C2=A0+421= 919416714=C2=A0
iMessage, mobile:=C2=A0+420775230885
Skype: casioa530= 2ca
fran= tisek.borsik@gmail.com


On Thu, 14 De= c 2023 at 3:46 AM, Robert McMahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> wrote:
I thi= nk this common in that appointment of commissioners go through a political = process. The FCC has a technology group, too. When I worked with them about= 8 years ago, they had skilled researchers on staff and a highly skilled di= rector. They asked good questions about engineering decisions, like what is= limiting the number of mimo streams on devices.

Their physical facility is a bit dated, and they don'= t get stock grants. I respect the engineers I worked with for what they did= .

Bob
On D= ec 13, 2023, at 2:38 PM, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat= .net> wrote:
I would love for Nathan to be here with us, and comment o= n that :-) so I will add NN list as well.


All the best,

Frank
Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

= h= ttps://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
Signal, Telegram, WhatsAp= p:=C2=A0+421919416714=C2=A0
iMessage, mobile:=C2=A0+420775230885
Skyp= e: casioa5302ca
frantisek.borsik@gmail.com

=

O= n Wed, 13 Dec 2023 at 11:21 PM, Richard Roy <dickroy3777@comcast.net> wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.ne= t] On Behalf Of Frantisek Borsik via Starlink
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 1:26 PM
To: Dave Taht via Starlink
Subject: [Starlink] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink=E2=80=99s RDOF Application

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CElon Musk=E2=80=99s Starlink was not the only major company to=C2=A0= inflate its capabilities=C2=A0in RDOF bids. Nearly 100 bidders have defaulted since the auction, leaving in limbo an=C2=A0<= /font>estimated $2.8 billion=C2=A0of the $9.2 billion originally awarded.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The FCC= =C2=A0upheld anothe= r denial=C2=A0on Monday= in the case of LTD Broadband, which appealed the commission=E2=80=99s finding that it could not reasonably serve the more th= an 500,000 locations to which it had committed. The commission also hit LTD with a $21= .7 million fine for its default.

The com= mission=E2=80=99s two Republicans dissented to Starlink=E2=80=99s denial, claiming they saw a path for the company to improve its speeds before the f= irst deployment deadline in 2025.=E2=80=9D

[RR] The reason two lawyers =E2=80=9Csaw a path=E2=80=9D is because they were bribed/conned into to see it. In my ne= arly 50years of experience dealing with the FCC, extremely rarely are the people at the = top in the commission tech savvy.=C2=A0 In general, they have NO CLUE when it c= omes to technology =E2=80=A6 period! JJ

=C2=A0




All the best,

Frank
Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

https://www.linkedin.com/i= n/frantisekborsik
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp:=C2=A0+421919416714=C2=A0
iMessage, mobile:=C2=A0+420775230885
Skype: casioa5302ca
frantisek.borsik@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
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