From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com (mail-ej1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 999DF3B29D for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2024 10:04:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a9963e47b69so27768066b.1 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2024 07:04:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1728309895; x=1728914695; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sLrKqYfzBapYFZx+UVdn/3JHeb4Ue1wwnXX+KXIgKPY=; b=Uc8PN53Rs6ml7JfzBc+g2JiLTzpOSRO5iG/ds833TJeE9eg0rXLbwNRyHo/woNkdst UnLkF3lZk9q3WYf6bKM4pwO6/fxanjtpEErc8EM5PdWh1MM5KakUzXiz1wVwa/db+p4E BmG3CVoBcilnObmR4vaJn8E7oaUQVGLkZrc2aBVCVdtH0P+qW1e77JAvS+fIXbtHvhWp gV7gOunkmxpW2I5USqngBUWry1V7jw/oftGY8gUjL+qq4H7Xikd3s0zoiLaZBa7SPK1u sr+agmQwDEIja80rqvyV8Cvrn/y94woxUzej19To8NLyCiC+5GSfYxQ9Il66cfp5y9fD 01/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1728309895; x=1728914695; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=sLrKqYfzBapYFZx+UVdn/3JHeb4Ue1wwnXX+KXIgKPY=; b=Zvr9Fy3pWdRjgHdHwd1L87j03MXdvr+rIew46T2nsuNWVOKDGLHGan2D1XqHu1woVI Vw3mwH3FBh5eFGJ7cN8OM9zHjl1qVAq02NiaaCeEwn3CHwko95R4yswF+83XvUbTiyUw EYZR9a/WXXj05AmWU6malSMf0PsMvuMYN9wVUK5z/T0CSff/I2hRMnxsZ6IW5KcsAZ6A nC9Ku4rvh+ZqJev3Se43EcGsNG61GjE7MJ8Ztqy+VoA/kJizdeyi3yJyXm9XGIzIQFiv xV+XsfV2WIuEflrvm1nsqDV7p1AHeVBf9cmK+FjINbDl0sijIpQs6QeS5b5C+nzekok8 kS1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz08VjQAJr+hj8B+v+k5cDSarBmQcaEoEZa0OKj49k0x+d0yKQp tgWUvU9V2h1oPzT/Pt/5Azclj1+BNfP2ejsqQYaUvlzrS//z2T5lyZ6ccpFOGh+LWg5zGVeBZ+M SDinEFMtmyamB3OAmWoPdupZJJFK0cA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF7NjlfylbFI41q31AKMO9NO5c9JHK7CbZsi2kHGFTwupNp2DMqEfIMdNVX/3vulCkN4wJK9IPmhmpyCgsuLWc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:868f:b0:a99:577b:b9f0 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a99577bbb02mr316636466b.30.1728309894842; Mon, 07 Oct 2024 07:04:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "David Bray, PhD" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2024 10:04:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005810a60623e38181" Subject: Re: [NNagain] an eloquent critique of NASA X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2024 14:04:56 -0000 --0000000000005810a60623e38181 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To Robert's point - humans weren't designed for space environments. Robots do make more sense. For humans to survive space, we'll have to change who we are at the genomic level - which is probably a Pandora's Box we're not ready for yet. Meanwhile China probably will land humans on the moon within the next four years of whomever is the next U.S. President. That may happen before the U.S. returns to the Moon. Either way, a "base" on the Moon by 2035 (which is PRC's goal) even if it's robots - or humans with the risk of loss of life) raises some challenges in terms of SIGINT, GEOINT, and the general ability to hurl rocks into Earth's gravity well. On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 9:58=E2=80=AFAM Robert McMahon via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > The hard part is life support systems and not so much the rockets. Musk > handwaves and claims life support is easy, both on Mars and in the > spacecraft t/fro. The song reveals it's not so easy to keep humans health= y > and well, even on this earth where humans evolved to survive. > > Musk constantly fails in his claims. His cult like following demonstrates > Festinger's When Phrophecy Fails. Failed prophecy which, counter to > intuition, strengthens the cult's belief in their leader. It's an illness > and not something to promote by my judgment. I think us selecting leaders > and peers that work from a basis of reality is they way to improve things= . > See the world as it is. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails > > " the team had seen that in some cases the failure of a prophecy, rather > than causing a rejection of the original belief system, could lead > believers to increase their personal commitment, and also increase their > efforts to recruit others into the belief" > > > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2024, 6:14 PM Dave Taht wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM Robert McMahon >> wrote: >> >>> SpaceX is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done >>> in 1970 and still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with >>> astronauts & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects= my >>> entire life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. Th= e >>> ego centric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion. >>> >>> https://youtu.be/wtSSP8FVUGY?feature=3Dshared >>> >> >> Hey, thx. I had heard of, but not heard, that poem before. >> >> As a counter, for the inspiring need for humans in space: try: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlD1ixTr4JWY&t=3D50s >> >> Otherwise I do generally prefer robotic exploration. Building and flying >> modernized versions of this would be fun: >> https://dartslab.jpl.nasa.gov/References/pdf/2019-mars-heli.pdf >> >> hopefully tomorrow Hera launches! >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain < >>> nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2024/10/02/sls-is-still-a-national-= disgrace/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nnagain mailing list >>>> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >> > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --0000000000005810a60623e38181 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To Robert's point - humans weren't designed f= or space environments. Robots do make more sense. For humans to survive spa= ce, we'll have to change who we are at the genomic level - which is pro= bably a Pandora's Box we're not ready for yet.

<= /div>
Meanwhile China probably will land humans on the moon within the = next four years of whomever is the next U.S. President. That may happen bef= ore the U.S. returns to the Moon. Either way, a "base" on the Moo= n by 2035 (which is PRC's goal) even if it's robots - or humans wit= h the risk of loss of life) raises some challenges in terms of SIGINT, GEOI= NT, and the general ability to hurl rocks into Earth's gravity well.


On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 9:58=E2=80=AFAM Robert McMaho= n via Nnagain <nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
The hard part is life support system= s and not so much the rockets. Musk handwaves and claims life support is ea= sy, both on Mars and in the spacecraft t/fro. The song reveals it's not= so easy to keep humans healthy and well, even on this earth where humans e= volved to survive.

Musk consta= ntly fails in his claims. His cult like following demonstrates Festinger= 9;s When Phrophecy Fails. Failed prophecy which, counter to intuition, stre= ngthens the cult's belief in their leader. It's an illness and not = something to promote by my judgment. I think us selecting leaders and peers= that work from a basis of reality is they way to improve things. See the w= orld as it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails
<= /div>

"=C2=A0the team had seen that in some cases the failu= re of a prophecy, rather than causing a rejection of the original belief sy= stem, could lead believers to increase their personal commitment, and also = increase their efforts to recruit others into the belief"
=



On Sun, Oct 6, 2024, 6:14 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:





On Fr= i, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM Robert McMahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> wrote:
SpaceX= is no better than NASA by my opinion. A proper critique was done in 1970 a= nd still applies today. See link. I grew up in Houston & with astronaut= s & their kids because LBJ was from Texas. Seen space projects my entir= e life. Focus should be on our planet and robots on the others. The ego cen= tric view of manned space flight is an illness by my opinion.=C2=A0

Hey, thx. = I had heard of, but not heard, that poem before.

As a co= unter, for the inspiring need for humans in space: try:=C2=A0https://www.y= outube.com/watch?v=3DlD1ixTr4JWY&t=3D50s

O= therwise I do generally=C2=A0prefer robotic exploration. Building and flyin= g modernized=C2=A0versions of this would be fun:=C2=A0https://dartsl= ab.jpl.nasa.gov/References/pdf/2019-mars-heli.pdf

hopefully=C2=A0tomorrow= Hera launches!

=C2=A0


Bob

On Thu, Oct 3, 2024, 7:03 PM Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>= wrote:
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@l= ists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain


--
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
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