From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com (mail-ed1-x532.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 433A43CB37; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:08:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5401bab7525so7364583a12.2; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 06:08:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699884506; x=1700489306; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VbN62VYDIDm1vcNSucBuQidBM23BCg4wSCpO74I2I/s=; b=A6K2z+ViN3BC3Aj75kqC28TUG3NOLiiT6hYL0FAVWaiMfopULMwIFg+gVFIhRUvqTy vguQYBgTVLBTITD4YhXbR0k/7BN9200d+VXYbfU0HGDzwvhIQKcN0vPRyGJKusSSoTF7 VlttaOSC0xFwez5hD/lTYDZSGYdHcWHkYu1ovxDPCuyu6pw2cHGN2DppqkNNwGOCPOr3 0DO0StVfe1oW9jL74sIHO2zTWRRCj661t3n5Jwbh2yIppS6ctv/Yfz/AsHP9Q0asDfDN FfyL5BfnvR73D26eOxjJH7ZHENFlfVuitKCEAOtfyqM+ZCTl8zXywjF0M5W0sABmjPk6 fhsg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699884506; x=1700489306; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=VbN62VYDIDm1vcNSucBuQidBM23BCg4wSCpO74I2I/s=; b=Vfn5tBhlzj9PsN/gJLaPRDomD+5KwpQusQ/1BW7htHYCmQKHP/nsvzIZLLC99sWKYB m3XUG0zbWavXBlNuuOLQupOM2fBeXtayOokz45k4veo7ArEimqHOFQ6d3fw1xi27KreX lQQbxIPmu/gRTK7PmPtylUuBkh1NJ0EF3aJe7CbbcBMTMEXIqKWDlgrPFHmLgyEHqGFB v6Gzb7CywICXPeI9AwGLHZJHOI0HwfW/UHl9bEoMmFpOTZtyIqfTYkWAR4fMtoBiQ0eK d3Xww5JGU9b3VTkjWXA0zsA0gPUMqT0UiyEJ8oeZ6YgpGJ/xdrB1AeJeBuFzPfl4+OQp Clgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxd5ehAhJ4MMvfn8xaEchD43ztWOSe6OPkkAaKl5m6PZp9ApXmc WS7VabWpX/V7AGw2RyWseq4w+dAYbY0m2LOrHQcCGGvi2ac= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEyCTFTtWTJSr7Q6vsWPjWqY/fCfX2MBEwew2btdJFBdAv1PhjtxejZFVhkNGyosLxhIB72HNSvBDOj/WW5XYA= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:c3c9:0:b0:543:c50c:cacc with SMTP id l9-20020aa7c3c9000000b00543c50ccaccmr4957268edr.41.1699884506087; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 06:08:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "David Bray, PhD" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:08:15 -0500 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Cc: Dave Taht , Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002506d1060a09345d" Subject: Re: [NNagain] the real state of "smart agriculture"? X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 14:08:28 -0000 --0000000000002506d1060a09345d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Isn=E2=80=99t the rubric that any so called =E2=80=9Csmart=E2=80=9D device = really means you can just replace the words =E2=80=9Chackable=E2=80=9D for the word smart? Shouldn=E2=80=99t we be concerned about ransomware hitting farmers who are = focused on farming vs. cybersecurity? Or - the data exhaust from their farming activities being sold to the highest bidder for hedge fund and other financial plays pre-market regarding crop futures? Oh, and happy Monday all. :-) On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 07:45 Dave Taht via Nnagain < nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > (I am hoping others on this list with real-world AG experience can > chime in? I enjoy realworld stories about present solutions and pain > points[2]) > > I have often been dubious of the 5g hope to dominate any major > component of a smart ag architecture except perhaps FWA, (where > starlink is poised and people also want to run fiber) to give it a > good run for the money- 5g chips are too big, too hard to power, and > too complex, and come with a monthly billing model and other > centralized requirements that make organic evolution and solid support > in remote environments dicy and expensive. > > I freely concede that I may be wrong, that with sufficient subsidies, > we will end up hanging the equivalent of a cellphone off of every > suitably large piece of gear and ship all the data up to the cloud, > rather than pre-process locally. Certainly the benefits of gps and > drones are being shown every day, along with satellite weather and > other forms of satellite analysis. [1] > > But the 5g sensor market? No. Nowadays smart sensors are easily > constructed out of wifi devices such as these which cost 5 dollars or > less: > > > https://www.amazon.com/DORHEA-Development-Microcontroller-NodeMCU-32S-ESP= -WROOM-32/dp/B086MJGFVV/ref=3Dasc_df_B086MJGFVV/ > > And the more meshy LoRA stuff now has much better range (4 miles), at > low complexity and power also. > > then there are things like amazon sidewalk: > https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D21328123011 > > And airtags. > > [1] On the other hand rigorous analysis of the food we produce has > recently discovered a marked decline in the percentage of nutritious > minerals over the past 100 years. Please see: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831 > > How smart is that? > > [2] Massive subsidy and diversion of river resources to the water > hungry california almond industry during the last 7 years of drought > led to the cancellation of the salmon fishing season last year. > > You should hear some of the invective that I used to hear aimed at > "the f-ing vegetarians" along the docks I frequent in half moon bay. > That I used to hear, anyway, The docks are eerily silent, the workers > at other jobs, the boats not going out for anything except crab and > squid. > > How smart is that? The California water table is a disaster, too. I > vastly prefer salmon to almonds personally.... > > I guess a meta point is easily gathering tactical data is one thing, > sharing it sanely another, deciding on how to use it strategically, > another. > > -- > :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > --0000000000002506d1060a09345d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Isn=E2=80=99t the rubric that any so called =E2=80=9Csmar= t=E2=80=9D device really means you can just replace the words =E2=80=9Chack= able=E2=80=9D for the word smart?=C2=A0

Shouldn=E2=80=99t we be concerned about ransomware hitting = farmers who are focused on farming vs. cybersecurity?=C2=A0

Or - the data exhaust from their farm= ing activities being sold to the highest bidder for hedge fund and other fi= nancial plays pre-market regarding crop futures?=C2=A0

Oh, and happy Monday all. :-)

=
On Mon, No= v 13, 2023 at 07:45 Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rg= b(204,204,204)">(I am hoping others on this list with real-world AG experie= nce can
chime in? I enjoy realworld stories about present solutions and pain
points[2])

I have often been dubious of the 5g hope to dominate any major
component of a smart ag architecture except perhaps FWA, (where
starlink is poised and people also want to run fiber) to give it a
good run for the money- 5g chips are too big, too hard to power, and
too complex, and come with a monthly billing model and other
centralized requirements that make organic evolution and solid support
in remote environments dicy and expensive.

I freely concede that I may be wrong, that with sufficient subsidies,
we will end up hanging the equivalent of a cellphone off of every
suitably large piece of gear and ship all the data up to the cloud,
rather than pre-process locally. Certainly the benefits of gps and
drones are being shown every day, along with satellite weather and
other forms of satellite analysis. [1]

But the 5g sensor market? No. Nowadays smart sensors are easily
constructed out of wifi devices such as these which cost 5 dollars or
less:

https://www.amazon.com/DORHEA-Development-Microcontrol= ler-NodeMCU-32S-ESP-WROOM-32/dp/B086MJGFVV/ref=3Dasc_df_B086MJGFVV/

And the more meshy LoRA stuff now has much better range (4 miles), at
low complexity and power also.

then there are things like amazon sidewalk:
https://www.amazon.com/Amaz= on-Sidewalk/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D21328123011

And airtags.

[1] On the other hand rigorous analysis of the food we produce has
recently discovered a marked decline in the percentage of nutritious
minerals over the past 100 years. Please see:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/fu= ll/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831

How smart is that?

[2] Massive subsidy and diversion of river resources to the water
hungry california almond industry during the last 7 years of drought
led to the cancellation of the salmon fishing season last year.

You should hear some of the invective that I used to hear aimed at
"the f-ing vegetarians" along the docks I frequent in half moon b= ay.
That I used to hear, anyway, The docks are eerily silent, the workers
at other jobs, the boats not going out for anything except crab and
squid.

How smart is that? The California water table is a disaster, too. I
vastly prefer salmon to almonds personally....

I guess a meta point is easily gathering tactical data is one thing,
sharing it sanely another, deciding on how to use it strategically,
another.

--
:( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab<= br> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Nnagain mailing list
Nnagain@= lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
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