From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oo1-xc2c.google.com (mail-oo1-xc2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA3883CB37 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 14:33:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-oo1-xc2c.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-58a0ac41154so2168369eaf.1 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 11:33:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700422416; x=1701027216; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iWZd3mts+u9DVqKHlZZBXadgMncCEaDl4YkchYOdARc=; b=S/21cw6ZvRTilC3pF0xfASSxA1Ct+fjwWd0X+VlpgcWbgAlpz420dUapiG7T9PjzCY jsvHamrpjd+9fvyvIbS+lSH8BSxPoQ73gzzG74ODG9ZKDlYpdBWXHmQ5wY0OJN5XzFA6 8sK+rjeHvyVpj4jNNstBe2WSXmlNlhjHBYb4arXLhFRebtwVjeKmoByi6mkUyC+dDs8q cjiopycfftLYrgDGc/54ixg1TqzFiA8LNIvKZgqmF23DXE+lzowMG4bsWXap/G5z9ik8 padgCdN1k3+zrC7l9NwqIPjBxtW0vu63hB1lJmYqFSf4rD1c32zbMnYXElNceGxCLYln ef6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700422416; x=1701027216; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=iWZd3mts+u9DVqKHlZZBXadgMncCEaDl4YkchYOdARc=; b=N8n9g4mdTHoBWdHRlCZCUMTFcJycBJurY9P5J2i1NU1ghfE7RGPgfIsPNSBCB4uBad ky7BxDZiZ0D18AdiN3AOzNcEimeiS1G5w/TlQJKw6iSQjgmDTkAZL6KE+HjGMNhgMNAQ uPh+199EMxPtBuTKGa8xjHbeH9WCHbkguNTUpYyY6e7OY/nU8shO9fUVaVnkgY8ae+Y1 XngtY1kHcpoThjDB2t5qrbKvQqHdLBSnXIKv0azdFZMXpGgrnSkpjQYl/HzsG6fSIASg 9cadMSWOt2MosmKpVRDUAQvsiAsc8TZQLsUr6zR0Y+c/5la/AXRbQZTPnvV4Bekxp+ln CzYA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyv2d05dEmfqBuU/+iOFz9nXCPAB0E3SMN8u7CMRM0/tOLz18OV iNoh9+46g8UYCxeBHBHtlvht518l+jR5yZhv7AN32i6PakU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEzRAQgHYEqxyGQeso5AKRFvve1bghspN7yNjVpyTHFMhVea3kA34KlSGFPI2+4ESs4DHPfy0mDvoEy+lnV5tw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:aa97:b0:1e9:e975:4418 with SMTP id gr23-20020a056870aa9700b001e9e9754418mr7200735oab.53.1700422416363; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 11:33:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 14:33:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Cc: debbie.chachra@olin.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [NNagain] water infrastructure and much more X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 19:33:37 -0000 I have not had much time to write anything long form, but I enjoy reading long, thoughtful pieces on Sundays, and this one might ultimately yield analogies for internet infrastructure also. https://comment.org/care-at-scale/ "In the late nineteenth century, the wealthy taxpayers of Boston were convinced to build out water and sewage systems by a straightforward logic: every person in the city, rich or poor, needed clean water to drink every day. Without it, they would be at risk of contracting water-borne diseases like cholera. And with so many people in proximity, wealth alone couldn=E2=80=99t provide protection from contagious disease." While otherwise a wonderful read - go read it!! - Me being me, I disagree that "the wealthy taxpayers of boston recognized the need for common water infrastructure" because the germ theory of disease was not well accepted, and the organism behind the epidemic was first described in 1854 and not again until 1884. I imagine there was great - AGW-esq - sturm und drang - and attempts to shift the blame for cholera to merely "being poor", or "foreign", or "the will of the gods", or rats - and attempts to shift the costs onto various other parties before safer water distribution systems were built, but! I freely admit, I have not done the research into the controversies that IMHO, must have existed back then. I think that practical problems, like enough city water in the first place to support the population density therein, also were a factor. The need for sound water and septic systems was recognized by many cities two millenia prior to this... and not by many others. I remember when the Delaware river and Boston Harbor were sewers, and have lived many places around the world where that was still the case for many rivers. >From some history (that I already knew) see this: https://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/firstdiscoveredcholera.html (It is remarkable how many expired SSL certificates there are in the world, also.) The Boston river caught fire many times before 1969, and until then, no-body cared: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cuyahoga-river-caught-fire-least-doz= en-times-no-one-cared-until-1969-180972444/ --=20 :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos