From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x52d.google.com (mail-pg1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 733253B29D for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 11:18:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-5cf2d73a183so3659326a12.1 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:18:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705421898; x=1706026698; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=/UoaMp+DDD1nkJhrQGf46010TboH3f12YR1cIQdFP6I=; b=XjrB9ARO9t+Io3ZAraVhYGz6G2O3pLj4emL3tcz8KR4Tpq+Vq9OUCHCtHLMkOTsfgZ ib13lptYQCnAi3owbOgk67Xl3Q8h6rmW+4OmZgxO3GdBi03st8kGTZCEk780VQ8To3a6 LOAR/BuUJ1V9sUZnAl5xJZH3Ol8kDW+rXqrusenquPJy6zFVy/rgOJ5RTbRyge9YZ27J 4kUGCtcVsVQTh1Ar154i3/rUhAcSJ6PSrZeNYlIiMP/INzkFy+W6kZCAb3LdkEBvBXJb PNM0Sd0w/OEicKan99SH2Q/KlZ9Ws6EZD/cJwgMgwVrSRaD7/HSGIARLoP3FeZhXbo21 EFYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705421898; x=1706026698; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/UoaMp+DDD1nkJhrQGf46010TboH3f12YR1cIQdFP6I=; b=Gul+8trSm205rhZTt5sM0vrY/MoiEQKM7TO3vP1v/cvENWdIg9+tgtiKrN7h1IIwE7 +RsymS9HnO/qwKHWGlIGbZdGbyGdch7ZzTjDgNpeiUE4+2hymnGEenrSrPBvxAwd7ZyL VvL0Ooq5dCGAbaclEzrAdRU+e0OlNAvkXkz8gf1Gz0GjbE6YCN2bLWPSLXSgvQ72Ws8f +Tv6gSmeaR/pv8oeILy6pcKaDeSRHMN1E67KG/eae+o3BfOuNPQXvDowWA6tqwKS7k5i EfW9378hwQx4cMhC3Cd5pLCSdLYWO1FvbMcDGh4TyJDzyKQkJpuMjRbEKbkbmKc0Ls5F Jpqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzQ90ATILZXP8uNdxNNe489OfoJJKzCEAVzB374618E+j4uyude 17Phf+da/2SUiN7mR1lEynUdx5ROfiRkI8yKujdUutAXPSs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHYQtWd3DG3IW7cDBkcPjGnTXRu0RYFJbaBwRuR0RMJfh7g0kGDc24q3uit9ZZw1Valr4lzJkA0f2OgFFUfCNI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:46ce:b0:28e:3189:f78e with SMTP id jx14-20020a17090b46ce00b0028e3189f78emr5553041pjb.42.1705421898040; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:18:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1E7D331C-CA41-4FC5-BE8F-E98409154321@pch.net> In-Reply-To: <1E7D331C-CA41-4FC5-BE8F-E98409154321@pch.net> From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 11:18:05 -0500 Message-ID: To: Bill Woodcock Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [NNagain] ISOC's IXP program X-BeenThere: nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspects_heard_this_time!?= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:18:19 -0000 You're tough, Bill! I do not know any more about this program than from the link, but it appeals to me at various levels. Notably: "Funds are available for training, community/regional development, and equipment purchases such as switches, optic modules, servers, and routers." Not enough people really understand BGP, nor the need for an internet to be an internet, and sometimes the capex needed to put in a better switch or router, just isn't there. So in particular, I would love to see efforts to make the need for IXPs more understandable. A couple weeks ago isoc also came out with a $12M program to support internet resilience. I have been watching several WISPs boast today how their networks stayed up (with adequate backup power and meshy links) when their fiber competitors didn't, in the current cold/snow snap... I have been looking also, into cheaper gear that can do this job, built around DANOS and SONIC. There's one switch for $1400 base cost that looked really good, built around that. Flaws: This is support for the traditional IXP model, which does not include middle mile/backhaul to another IXP hub. It does, however, have a carveout for IP transit to attract CDNs, but it's really not the same thing. Doesn't have a carve-out for software development. I think it really sad that so many seem to think that happens magically, and for free, nowadays. On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM Bill Woodcock wrot= e: > > > > > On Jan 16, 2024, at 16:09, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote: > > this is the kind of initiative I can get behind. > > What, specifically, do you find admirable about it? > > -Bill > --=20 40 years of net history, a couple songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD9RGX6QFm5E Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos